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Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

JUNE 23, 2003 at 2:37 PM

Posted by CHEESER
Source: HPANA

So, you've read Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, and pretty darn quick, too. Like many others around the world, you have a sore neck and strained eyes, the result of reading an 870-page book in two or three days. Now you want to share your arduous journey with others. This is the place to do it.

First I'll offer my own thoughts (LET THE SPOILERS BEGIN).

One word: WOW. And I thought the Dursleys were mean. As I'm thinking of where to begin talking about Order of the Phoenix, the one thing that keeps coming to the forefront of my mind is the book's grave look into the corruption and abuse of power (and vice-versa, the power of abuse and corruption). Whether found in the annals of history or safely between the book covers of children's fiction, it can be accurately restated that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

More on that later, but first, the death: How many of you were right? Raise your hands. Sirius was definitely on my short-list. When JK said a major character was going to die, I knew it wouldn't be any of the trio, I thought it might be an older Weasley, but then my thoughts turned to Sirius. He was given to Harry, so how painful could it be to have him taken away? That was my reasoning, anyway.

Is Cho finally "over-and-out"? Will the Weasley twins' business continue to succeed? Does the Ministry now understand how much it needs Dumbledore?

UPDATE: We now have a full-fledged forum available. Click here to start using it!

Q: What will happen to the content here?

A: Everything will be saved. In fact, I'd like recommendations on what to do with all the great posts here. Can we move some of it into the new forum? Just link back to it? Let me know (just mention my name, Cheeser, in any post).

Q: I don't like change! Waaaa!

A: That's not a question, but I understand. The new system is capable of so much more, including separate threads so people can have detailed conversations about certain aspects of the book. You can still have a free-for-all thread, too. It's your forum! Do whatever you want with it.

Latest Headlines
· Daniel Radcliffe narrates 'HMD 2010: The Legacy of Hope'
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Reader Comments (10604)

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Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

There is no real way that the Dursleys will allow another wizard to stay at their house, although it would be nice for Ron to come...

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:33 AM EST

Metamorphmagus

House: Gryffindor
Points: 37939

tonks black says:

strawbeez girl - thanks for clearin that up for me.
snitch -i heard that the title was harry potter and the green flamed torch , too

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:34 AM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

I like that Grindenwald theory Strawbeez, but lets not get upset at other people becuase they're bringing up subjects that have already been brought up..

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:36 AM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

TrueBluePotterFan--well, actually, right after that conversation, she just walks in, so yea.

I've been wondering something--are there other ways of getting to Hogwarts besides the train? Since you can't Apparate? Like, on that night in GoF, when Bill went to go contact Mr. Weasley, how did he go by? And Sirius and Snape too? Especially since they couldn't set up a Portkey, did they use Floo powder, or was the Ministry already watching that...

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:37 AM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

snitch, yea, i know, i was just clearin it up for tonks black...

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:38 AM EST

Madam Librarian

House: Gryffindor
Points: 13160

I-Pie says:

In reference to Malfoy, Crabb, and Goyle's fathers being in prison. In the last chapter, as Harry is going to visit Hagrid, he runs into the trio. Malfoy tells Harry he is going to get even for sending his father to prison. Crabb and Goyle do not say a word. I do not have OOP handy to check if Crabb and Goyle's fathers were mention as being at the Ministry. Do we assume everybody except for BL that
were in the raid were caught and sent to prison? If I remember that there 12 (that number again) DE at the Ministry. One of them got hurt in the prophecy room and another in the Time room. So Harry was facing 10 DE in the
Death Room and BL was the only one we know for sure got out.
Also, we still do not know how many DE's returned to Voldemort besides the 10 that escaped prison.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:39 AM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 339

Marauder says:

strawbeez girl- the knight bus, people can probably apparate in Hogsmeade but not on Hogwarts grounds, sirius most likely ran/traveled as a dog.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:42 AM EST

Metamorphmagus

House: Gryffindor
Points: 37939

tonks black says:

hp100 - he probably wasnt thinking about reading his mind, and then occulmency would of had to been introduced then i think

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:47 AM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

hp100 - wow i never thought of that. Good observation. Maybe he didn't think about it..

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:47 AM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 339

Marauder says:

hp100- im not so sure he can completely read minds but Crouch Jr. probably learned occlumency.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:49 AM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

Marauder--thanks for clearing that up...

hp100--I have really no idea why DD didn't know. But hey, he's human, not all-knowing, and he makes mistakes. I brought up the same issue in a different way--if you have to enjoy tourturing, controlling, or killing someone, and Moody was never that kind of person, how come DD didn't see it? Cos he's human, not some all-knowing being.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:50 AM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

Flitterbloom, where did you get your picture thingy? from what site?

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:52 AM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

hmmm, this is getting REALLY LONG!!!!!!!!

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:54 AM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

I think I typed the word snitch into www.google.com images and it was there so I just copied and pasted the url

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:56 AM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

yup, everyone makes mistakes, though i think Harry still doesn't see this yet...

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:56 AM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 339

Marauder says:

I just thought of something stupid. What if Grindenwald was Hitler?

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:58 AM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 109

Remus_lupin says:

Hi this is the first time iam posting a comment.

But I always had one doubt wrt in the GOF why didnt anything happen to the scar that HArry had during the priori incantem with Voldermort. Something to do with in future...

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 11:59 AM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

Marauder.. I very highly doubt that JKR would want to bring such an evil REAL person into these books. I mean, I know they're dark, but not that dark.. That would bring up to much controversy

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:00 PM EST

Metamorphmagus

House: Gryffindor
Points: 37939

tonks black says:

then people would say she is racist and all.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:03 PM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 109

Remus_lupin says:

I meant to say why the scar didnt vanish because the scar was a spell Voldie performed after he killed his parents

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:05 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

Marauder--it's not that stupid, I've thought it too. What if he was Hitler or Tojo? But I've concluded that he was the driving (magical) force behind one of them. So, like, at the same time that the Muggles were fighting, it was actually a wizards fight, where they were fightig among themselves and using Muggles to do the work... I know, it's far-fetched...

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:11 PM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 109

Remus_lupin says:

Still confused Any way thanks Snitch..

Moving to other things if harry where an animagus what would he turn into.. Any suggestions

And do you think that we would learn more about the veil after the conversation between HP and Luna at end of OOTP

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:11 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

how about you, tonks black, where did you get your avatar...

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:13 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

Well, we learned a bit more about it, but not that much, remus lupin...

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:14 PM EST

Auror

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2374

TrueBluePotterFan says:

strawbeez girl - Right click on anyones image and look at the properties. It will give the URL. Then you can look at that website to find other similar images.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:18 PM EST

Student

House: Slytherin
Points: 208

George Can'tStandya says:

Wow! A lot of posts to cull through since work ended yesterday.

1) The Grindewald idea is very interesting. I have not given this much thought, but I commend the person who has identified this moment in SS, becuase they have convinced me that this will indeed bear heavy on teh following two books.

2) I am also considering the observation that it was Voldermort who told Lily to get out of the way. IN my readings I always inferred that it was James shouting to her and Voldemort laughing. Must re-read.

3) I always took it as James was a seeker. Granted this is probably the movies influence, and while things are changed in the movie, JKR has final approval of all changes. She has made sure certain things are kept in becuase they play a role later on in the book. I find it easier to believe that she would have a slip of the tongue in an interview, than make a correctable mistake when approving text for the film.

4) Kadyak, nice catch on the Rikki Tikki Tavi. You should get mondo points for that one.

5) Kadyak, I love the prime directive response to my thoughts on the macro issues of teh HP universe. I am not overly familiar with Star Trek, but I think the analogy falls short on some levels. First off, the Muggles and Wizards are tied together as a race, after all Wizards produce Muggles and Muggles produce Wizards, so their cultures show a high degree of interdependence. Also, the secrecy wouldn't be so damnable if the wizard world actually seperated themselves from Muggles, but they do not. They live in London and take advantage of Muggles to protect their secret. How many times has JKR mentioned that a Muggle had their memory modified? Each time is a violation of the highest order, and no one in teh wizarding world has protested these acts out of a need for the secrecy, yet the secret is entrusted to the Dursley's, Hermione's parents, Dean's parents. Remember, the caretaker was tried and branded for a crime he didn't commit, and wizards did nothing. I could understand the two worlds going a seperate routes but the wizards never give the muggles this opportunity. They have established that their culture is superior to that of the Muggles and manipulate the situation in certain cases for the mutual benefit of both Muggles and Wizards, but when push comes to shove the benefit is always for wizard kind.

When the Sorting Hat talks about unity, it must include ALL of teh races, and while the centuars and elfs, and goblins, and even giants are immediately recognized as necessary in this, the Muggles who potentially have the most to lose if Voldemort was to rise, are completely ignored. This is something the Order must rectify.

6) Virginia, the situation in the wizarding world differs from the instance of two nations keeping secrets from each other. It is one thing for the wizards to teach the Muggles everything they know, it is quite another for the wizards to hide their very existence from the Muggles, and to promote this secrecy by altering the minds of muggles who through no fault of their own discover the secret. It is a case of arrogance on behalf of wizarding kind that they deem themselves able to make such decisions. And as the saying goes, pride goeth before the fall. You are quite right, that Muggles have shown a lack of ability to deal with teh situation, and teh Muggles themselves muct struggle with this question. It will not be easy for either side, but as I mentioned earlier, each is interlocked with the other, as long as Muggles are having wizard children, and wizards are having squibs the two should learn to grow together.

Sorry for the length.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:25 PM EST

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