Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

George Can'tStandya says:

Wow! A lot of posts to cull through since work ended yesterday.

1) The Grindewald idea is very interesting. I have not given this much thought, but I commend the person who has identified this moment in SS, becuase they have convinced me that this will indeed bear heavy on teh following two books.

2) I am also considering the observation that it was Voldermort who told Lily to get out of the way. IN my readings I always inferred that it was James shouting to her and Voldemort laughing. Must re-read.

3) I always took it as James was a seeker. Granted this is probably the movies influence, and while things are changed in the movie, JKR has final approval of all changes. She has made sure certain things are kept in becuase they play a role later on in the book. I find it easier to believe that she would have a slip of the tongue in an interview, than make a correctable mistake when approving text for the film.

4) Kadyak, nice catch on the Rikki Tikki Tavi. You should get mondo points for that one.

5) Kadyak, I love the prime directive response to my thoughts on the macro issues of teh HP universe. I am not overly familiar with Star Trek, but I think the analogy falls short on some levels. First off, the Muggles and Wizards are tied together as a race, after all Wizards produce Muggles and Muggles produce Wizards, so their cultures show a high degree of interdependence. Also, the secrecy wouldn't be so damnable if the wizard world actually seperated themselves from Muggles, but they do not. They live in London and take advantage of Muggles to protect their secret. How many times has JKR mentioned that a Muggle had their memory modified? Each time is a violation of the highest order, and no one in teh wizarding world has protested these acts out of a need for the secrecy, yet the secret is entrusted to the Dursley's, Hermione's parents, Dean's parents. Remember, the caretaker was tried and branded for a crime he didn't commit, and wizards did nothing. I could understand the two worlds going a seperate routes but the wizards never give the muggles this opportunity. They have established that their culture is superior to that of the Muggles and manipulate the situation in certain cases for the mutual benefit of both Muggles and Wizards, but when push comes to shove the benefit is always for wizard kind.

When the Sorting Hat talks about unity, it must include ALL of teh races, and while the centuars and elfs, and goblins, and even giants are immediately recognized as necessary in this, the Muggles who potentially have the most to lose if Voldemort was to rise, are completely ignored. This is something the Order must rectify.

6) Virginia, the situation in the wizarding world differs from the instance of two nations keeping secrets from each other. It is one thing for the wizards to teach the Muggles everything they know, it is quite another for the wizards to hide their very existence from the Muggles, and to promote this secrecy by altering the minds of muggles who through no fault of their own discover the secret. It is a case of arrogance on behalf of wizarding kind that they deem themselves able to make such decisions. And as the saying goes, pride goeth before the fall. You are quite right, that Muggles have shown a lack of ability to deal with teh situation, and teh Muggles themselves muct struggle with this question. It will not be easy for either side, but as I mentioned earlier, each is interlocked with the other, as long as Muggles are having wizard children, and wizards are having squibs the two should learn to grow together.

Sorry for the length.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:25 PM EST

Auror

House: Gryffindor
Points: 2303

padfoot5312 says:

My daughter has just finished the book. She believes that Sirius had to die to move the plot along. She feels that Harry would not have chased Bellatrix to the exit if she killed any other character. If harry hadn't chased Bellatrix out she doesnt believe that Voldemort would have showed himself in the ministery. Being that it was esencial for Fudge to see Voldemort, Rowling had to kill Sirius inorder to move the plot along so everybody would know that Voldemort was alive.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:26 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

*grins* I've had the Grindenwald theory for months, but I didn't post it until recently...

GeorgeCan't StandYa--great point about wizards thinking they are superior to Muggles, and not giving them any choices... because they are locked together, whether they like it or not. Yea, and what about the parents of muggle-borns? I mean, I know that the Dursley's say that Harry goes to St. Brutus', but what do Hermionie's, Dean's, Justin's, and the Creevy's parents say? They've got to have some excuse...

Padfoot5312--your daughter is brilliant, tell her that. I really hated Sirius dying, but the plot needed to get going, and for Fudge to see Voldy and beleive he was back. Also, Sirius' death helps Harry to see that Dumbledore is human, and he can make trivial mistakes, just like everytone else.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:38 PM EST

Wizard

House: Slytherin
Points: 533

dimtick says:

remus-lupin - I'm hoping that Harry will become an animangus. I always thought of Harry as becoming a snake because he's a parceltongue. If the traits of the animal are supposed to represent the traits of Harry, I would think he would become a german sheppard - loyalty, courage.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:39 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

Cathaholic--nice to see ya back. Hmm, I beleive that sometime in this really long files and files there was this really long running thing about maybe Harry was a metamorphagus... but I think it was eliminated as a possibility... if he was/is, he should have shown the talent a bit sooner...

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:42 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

Cathaholic- thats a good observation. We think that maybe since Ron had that brain wrapped around that he may develop powers that the brain had. This could include perhaps the power to be a metamorphmagus. But it's still very difficult to see that. There definitly could be other people changing their appearance at will and not telling anyone about it. I don't have any ideas as to who right now, but if I sat down and thought about it long enough I might get more of an idea as to who..
George Can'tStandYa- I know you mentioned that muggles and wizards may find it difficult to accept eachothers worlds as uniting.. well muggles more difficultly uniting and wizards more difficultly in equlaizing the 2 worlds, but do you really think JKR is going to do that in 2 books? I think muggles (along with all the other creatures) will be a part of the 6th and 7th books, but I don't see how JKR would spend so much time trying to unite and equalize the non-magical and magical worlds!?
Dimtick - I think Harry becoming an anigmus would be awesome, but he's got 2 years, and it took James and them 3 years.. Harry would have to work unbelievably hard to do that.. he might be able to pull it off though

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:43 PM EST

Auror

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2374

TrueBluePotterFan says:

Many discussions on what position James played. Maybe he started out as a chaser and then became a seeker. Or vice versa. Look at Ginny. She was a seeker in OOTP and says she will try to make the teem next years as a chaser. I bet it will happen too. I have no proof of this theorhy other than JKR mentioning in a chat that James was chaser and the fact that he was holding the snitch in OOTP. Also as George Can'tStandya said, on the movies JKR has final approval on the content, and the movie SS said that James was a seeker.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:43 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

dimtick--yea, being an animagus would make sense, but does the personality always reflect the animal? Somehow, I don't see McGonagall's personality as a cat... but then Sirius and Wormtail do seem like a dog and a rat... so I'm really not sure.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:45 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

Hold on, with that brain thing--didn't the brain harm Ron? I want to know why it was in the Department in the first place, and what powers it had, and who said having more brains was always a good thing? Hmm, I wonder what else they study there, and if they will EVER reveal it to the wizarding world? If not, what's the point of studying it if no one puts it to use? We know they study death, brains, prophecies, but what else? And, for heavens sake, WHY???

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:50 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

Ok, this is my last post today, I gotta do other stuff, just keep in mind what I said. *grins* gotta go!

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 12:52 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

OH MY GOSH!! Ok bear with me people as I write about another Crazy Idea I had.. Cathaholic- You were saying what if someone we know was a metamorphmagus.. ok, well earlier some people were contemplating the idea that maybe Lupin, is James in disguise.. what if James was a metamorphmagus and he changed his appearance to Lupins after.. Lupin died? It's a really CrAzY and out there idea I know, but.. what if? Thoughts anyone..

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:00 PM EST

Marauder says:

Flitterblom- I wish it were true but we've got to remember that JKR said we would never see a live James or Lily

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:07 PM EST

Snape's Woman
(Moderator)

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 5392

Prof. Andaxia Moonstar says:

On the Animagus topic:

In Book 4, Hermione mentions there is a list of registered Animagi at the Ministry of Magic (I think she said there were 12 on the list). We know McGonagall is on the list - any ideas on the other 11? How many more unregistered Animagi do you think are out there (besides Sirius, Pettigrew, James, and Rita)? What roles will they play in Books 6 and 7?

I think there may be something to do with Dean's artistic ability as well; it has been mentioned several times.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:13 PM EST

Marauder says:

Hermione said there were only 12 registered animagus this century so they may not be alive, but an Animagus has been in every book.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:16 PM EST

Squib

House: Slytherin
Points: 142

Mad-Eye says:

Do you think that when someone transforms into his or her animagus form they keep all human instincts or are they mixed with animal instincts?

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:26 PM EST

Marauder says:

They must keep at least most human instincts because Sirius and McGonagall found Harry's house. How would they be able to transform back if they didn't keep some human.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:29 PM EST

Squib

House: Slytherin
Points: 142

Mad-Eye says:

Marauder- obviously they keep some human instincts but do you think they also have animal instincts while transformed?

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:31 PM EST

Snape's Woman
(Moderator)

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 5392

Prof. Andaxia Moonstar says:

I believe they do gain some animal abilities, including basic ones (knowing innately how to walk on four feet, or fly), and probably some more complicated ones (a dog's sense of smell, an eagle's sharp vision, a horse's keen hearing). Animagi definitely keep their human instincts, though, and their knowledge.

I would like to see Hermione become an Animagus. I think hers would be an owl (a symbol for wisdom).

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:40 PM EST

Squib

House: Slytherin
Points: 142

Mad-Eye says:

thanks for your thoughts on this, I was just asking because my friend and me came up with a very weird theory. What if McGonagall gave in to her animal instincts and bred with one of Mrs. Figgs cats/kneazles and crookshanks was her son. She would be forced to give him away because the situation would cause problems. That could explain why crookshanks could be part kneazles, and McGonagall was the teacher who could spot trouble the fastest and that explains why crookshanks is so clever at spotting trouble or seeing things for what they really are.

It’s very unlikely this could be the case but it does have a couple of valid points if you think about it and we were just trying to amuse ourselves while waiting for the next book.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:42 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

Mad-Eye- that is one CrAzY theory.. I mean.. WHOA! I don't think I could imagine that. Crookshanks just seems like a cat. I don't think he has some sort of special power or anything to him. lol

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:51 PM EST

Squib

House: Slytherin
Points: 142

Mad-Eye says:

we were just having some fun although i do believe crookshanks will have a bigger role to play.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:57 PM EST

Wizard

House: Slytherin
Points: 533

dimtick says:

I don't remeber from the books, did it really take James, Siruis and Wormtail 3 years to learn to be animangus? I remember from OoP that they were already doing it when the took their owl tests (Snape flashback). Maybe it is a skill level more so than time to learn.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:59 PM EST

Wizard

House: Slytherin
Points: 533

dimtick says:

I would like to see more with Crookshanks. Maybe he is an animangus?

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:04 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

Crookshanks an animagus? Wow.. JKR does always seem to put some sort emotion or feeling when she's writing about crookshanks. Almost as though crookshanks can understand whats going on.. I can see that theory coming true much more than the whole McGonagall giving birth to crookshanks one!

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:05 PM EST

Squib

House: Slytherin
Points: 142

Mad-Eye says:

'Yes indeed,' said Lupin. 'It took them the best part of three years to work out how to do it.'- PoA

dimtick you could be right about it being a skill level because Sirius and James were the smartest in the year and they had to help Peter because he was a poorer wizard.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:05 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

The question though would be, if Crookshanks is an anigmus, who's the person that can turn into him? Any ideas?

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:06 PM EST