Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

Hey, maybe in the next book(s) Lupin will start to become sort of a father figure to Harry? I always liked Lupin. hmmm...though if Voldemort went and killed Lupin I don't think Harry could handle it (well, I sure couldn't anyways). Just a thought.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:42 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

Okay, apparently my posts did go through. Sorry 'bout that. Anyway, I think if Lupin dies, Wormtail will kill him--his silver hand would kill a werewolf.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:45 PM EST

George Can'tStandya says:

First time poster here at this wonderful site. I am new to the HP fandom (it is how I have been coping with the loss of Buffy). SO my reading of all the books has occured in the last month. I am in total agreement with the person who is pointing to the fountain as a very important clue. The banding together of these races will probably be very important in the long run. As will the Draco and Harry connection. The sorting hat song is very telling. As were both Ron and Harry's dismissal of this plea for unity if it meant that they would have to be friends with Malfoy. This point was further heightened given James's behaviour toward Snape. Who was he acting like? Yet in the end there were still redeeming qualities within him, that he was able to pass on to his son. The unity theme is also pointed to with the revelation that the Sorting Hat almost put Hemione is Ravenclaw. Now we know that both her and Harry could have gone to otehr houses. Who else? Is there really any difference between them? We know that Hagrid said that every bad wizard had come from Slytherin, but not every Slytherin is a bad wizard, nor is Hagrid going to be correct if people are right and Percy is set to make a power grab.

Petunia and Dumbledore's connection is very interesting, and I am wondering to those who have reread the books are there any clues to what happened to Lily and Petunia's family? Also if all of the pure blood families are interelated, then what of the Potter clan and of course who are Dumbledore's relations? His name is certainly long enough to connect him to someone.

Neville will also play a very interesting part, and I am just not convinced that he isn't the key to the prophecy. Harry even noticed this in GOF that Neville's life was in many ways much harder than Harry's.

As far as the quote of JK's about this novel taking us to a new and majjical place, I think she was referring to the actual teen age years were hormones are just starting to crank up, suddenly the opposite sex, become quite mysterious and magical. Witness Hermiones brilliant insights into Cho, but her inablity to understand quidditch or to understand Ron and harry's problems with grasping the intricacies of a teen age girls rationale. Harry and Ron and Hermione are entering a new majical world of first dates, first kisses, and first broken hearts.

best new character: Luna.

P.S. I am very glad to have found this ineteresting web site.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:46 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 203

macnstac says:

Muggle Wizard, I agree with that. However, Lupin did not show feeling or talk about Sirius moving on. This surprises me as you always heard how he and Sirius spoke of James.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:50 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Yeah, I think the headmaster is working on fixing the problem with the comments not showing up right away. You can get around it by changing the URL (right now mine ends in /201#comments) -- just had 25 to it (so it ends in /226#comments) to get the next page if you think a comment didn't go through.....

I wonder whether Dumbledore will try to become Harry's father figure and whether Harry will let him. Not sure about Lupin. Harry likes him, yes.... But it just doesn't seem like something that will happen.

Malisha, Harry just has a lot left to learn... He has to figure out who he can and can't trust, and he has to learn to control his emotions. Unfortunately, these lessons don't come overnight.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:54 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

pheonixfeathers...I see your point. On one hand, when James and Lily had a secret keeper, they hid in a real house that Volde could see but if he looked in the window he wouldn't see the Potters. On the other hand, the house didn't even appear until Dumbledore (secret keeper) let Harry know the address. So maybe the Order made the house Unplottable. If the house is unplottable (Hermione explained once) then it doesn't exist in a certain concrete location...I mean, it exists but unless you are granted permission or whatever, you couldn't see the building even if you walked right through it. You'd see an empty lot or something. I know this explanation is as clear as mud but hope it helps a little?

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:55 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

wait...phoenixfeathers, I've got it (maybe LOL): it depends WHAT the secret is that the secret keeper is holding. In the Potters case, it was the location of Lily and James, so no one could see the Potters even if they ran into them. In the Order's example, it's the location of the house that is the secret, so I don't think anyone could see or find the house, even if they knew where it used to be. Remember in the book, Harry saw the houses on either side (the house numbers above and below) but did not see the Order's house until he was told the location by Dumbledore?

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 4:59 PM EST

mk says:

Okay folks, this is coming from an adult (and a teacher at that). Let me explain a little about hormones kicking in. They do not just make you interested in the opposite sex. They do all SORTS of crazy and interesting things to your body and emotions. As someone who has not only lived through the teen years but had to take both undergraduate and graduate courses on childhood development and psychology I can tell you that teenagers have the patience of a gnat. And they most certainly WILL scream at their best friends even when they are angry at someone or something else. True friends (like Ron and Hermione) are able to overlook our faults and love us anyway. I thought Harry was portrayed VERY realistically. He has a lot to be angry about! As an adult I occasionally wanted to give him a good swift kick in the pants and tell him to grow up, but then again, that's what he's doing, isn't he?
Umbridge; OOOOOOOOO! I want her thrown into Azkaban. For using that dispicable quill if nothing else. I don't understand why she wasn't carted away for trying to use the Crucio curse.
Sirius; I'm sad to see him go but did see it coming about 1/2 way through the book. He hasn't really grown up. He behaves a lot like a teenager himself. NO patience at all! Even Harry started to realize this.
Anyway, just some of my MANY thoughts about the book....

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 5:10 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

Ohhhh...phoenixfeathers...very good point about Wormtail's silver hand being able to kill Lupin (werewolf). Maybe Voldemort will try to use Wormtail to kill Lupin, but remember Wormtail is indebted to Harry so maybe he won't be able to kill Lupin? ...being hopeful here...

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 5:23 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

glittergirl...Ginny is indeed very cool. I think Ron is just surprised that his little sis is growing up. Remember how shocked he was when Hermione mentioned Ginny even had a boyfriend? I think when Ginny said she'd broken up with Michael Ron assumed she'd gotten over the boy thing but got nervous when she said she would pick someone else (hence futive look to Harry). Then she goes and says she chose Dean Thomas, who is Ron's friend and peer! No wonder he was shocked. And Ron DID have a reaction...he yelled "WHAT?" and upset the entire chessboard he and Harry were playing on.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 5:33 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 279

Iisashes says:

Blah... I dont know how some of you can say that Harry's anger was sudden, I remember when I was his age, just all of the sudden I started yelling at people for no reason... AND HE HAS A REASON! lol, I think the book is wonderful and as I've read it 3 times now I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the 6th... grrr, hope it doesnt take another 3 years.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 5:44 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

Aravis, thanks, yeah that does make sense. Oh yeah and glittergirl, I think Ron's "furtive" look is evidence that Ron hopes his sister will choose someone better--probably Harry

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 6:29 PM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 388

Magellan says:

Ron did register a reaction when Ginny announced that she had chosen Dean Thomas - I think he turned over the chess board and all the pieces went flying (I don't have my book at my office). I don't think he said anything, however.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 6:44 PM EST

Minister of Disinformation
(Moderator)

House: Gryffindor
Points: 9657

Geri says:

I also wondered that Michelou when I was reading PoA, we've never heard anything about her. Who knows, maybe we'll see who it is in bk 6.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 7:30 PM EST

Weird Sister Fan says:

Did anyone catch Luna's comment about Stubby Boardman? Have we seen this name before? Why would she say his name in relation to Black?
Sorry if this is an old topic?

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 9:01 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

This is a really crazy idea but . . . well, remember how Nearly Headless Nick said that those who die become ghosts because they are afraid of death, of moving on to the other realm? Well, Voldemort is afraid of death so he would presumably become a ghost if someone killed him. Just an odd thought.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 9:02 PM EST

Prefect

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 361

LaDonna says:

I made a mistake in my last post. I found that Ron also has no problem saying Riddle, though he still has a problem with Voldemort.

Dumbledore says a couple of times in the book that there are worse things than death. I wonder what things he is referring too.

I wonder if the veil is a one-way gateway to the world of the dead. Strange.

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 9:49 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Here's another loose end that isn't tied up... Whatever happened to Sturgis Podmore? Once the dementors left Azkaban, did he escape too? Or did the dementors admister the kiss to everyone there...? Maybe something else?

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 11:02 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 279

Iisashes says:

Erodelbmud: Harry's scar hurts and all when he looks at dumbledore because Voldemort hates dumbledore and when harry looks at him, Voldie sees him ( i thinkie) and so voldie feels a surge of hatred and in turn so does harry. *wonders off to read Hp for the 4th time*

Posted Jun 24, 2003 at 11:56 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Hmm, Erodelbmud (nice name, by the way), good point.

I guess I wondered because it just seems weird that while most of the rest of the Order met up with Harry at Kings' Cross, Sturgis wasn't there. I wonder whether the Ministry actually released him after his six months were up. Maybe Voldemort left some dementors behind to guard any of the possibly "good" guys.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 12:18 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

OK, Erodelbmud and others that have commented on the mirror... Page 858 (US) explains that Harry broke the mirror. I can think of no occurrence of a broken magical item being usable again. (If it could, then why not just take repair the Prophecy, point a wand at it, and say, "Reparo"?)

Concerning the conversation with Nick, my own theory on this is that Nick is not allowed to discuss the choices that come at the time of death. Perhaps there is some sort of rule/law/whatever that you aren't allowed to interfere in this decision by providing details about it beforehand.

And, if there is a way back from the dead in that gateway, I wonder why such an effort is made to hold Harry back from it and why Lupin states quite flatly that "there's nothing you can do, Harry" (page 806 US).

Finally, there's the BBC interview. JKR states fairly clearly that there was no doubt that the character in question was dead.

* Of course, the above arguments are just my thoughts and speculations....

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 12:28 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

One more post, on Harry's scar.... Let's see what you all think of this:

I think that until Harry masters Occlumency that Voldemort will have the ability to influence Harry and make him get this feeling of hatred.

But, for example, at the time Harry was speaking to Dumbledore in his office at the end of the book, Voldemort probably had bigger things to worry about (like the shattered prophecy, and the (temporary or permanent?) loss of several loyal Death Eaters. Perhaps there is some protection in Dumbledore's office, too (but in this case DD is probably REALLY foolish for not telling Harry everything earlier and teaching him Occlumency himself).

As for the earlier books, well, the whole thing is that Voldemort apparently doesn't really see this connection between the two of them until Harry detects the attack on Mr. Weasley.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 12:34 AM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 975

Lilune says:

I think Neville will really come into his own from now on, and that it was a good thing he broke his father's wand (aside from sentimental value). Isn't the wand supposed to choose the wizard? Maybe now Neville will get to have his rightful wand and actually be able to cast some decent spells.
And I was gonna say something else but it's totally just flown out of my head ... damn

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 12:48 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

ZenFrodo -- about Neville being the "Other"... The Prophecy is not referring to Neville. Neville was not marked. Harry was. Dumbledore makes it clear on page 842 US. (He could be wrong, but personally I doubt this...)

What it does mean, though, is that Neville does have some ability, and this will be what is important in the next books. He comes from a pureblood family, and his parents were both members of the previous Order. In my opinion, this is a big thing in the Wizarding World. Sirius is one of a very few characters who actually turned against his family tradition.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 12:52 AM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

To elaborate on what Erodelbmud said, Azkaban IS a prision with cells etc. So when the dementors are free, they probably let loose the death eaters and kept the other (good) wizards in the cells. I could be wrong though...maybe the non-death eater prisioners who haven't gone crazy ("they stop eating in the end...") are still in their cells but can escape since there are no guards? We may see Sturgis later...

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 1:34 AM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

My thoughts on the arch thing: Sirius is definitely dead. Once someone is dead there is no way to bring them back and it is always a bad idea. Dumbledore I believe says something about leaving the dead behind way back when Harry saw his parents in the Mirror of Erised, and he almost gives the Sorceror/Phil. stone to Quirell/Voldie when he promises to bring Harry's parents back. Bringing the dead back is BAD (in every story I've ever read, it's gone wrong...death is not to be tampered with). That archway may (and probably does) hold some meaning we'll find out but since even Dumbledore says Sirius is dead, I really do think he is. JMHO.

On a side note, phoenixfeathers brought up a very interesting point about Voldie dying unhappy so becoming a ghost? Good grief, what hell that would be!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 1:46 AM EST