Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Maybe Harry gave himself the scar! He could have aimed for Voldemort and it bounced off him and onto baby Harry.

Except, didn't Professer McGonnagall have to write several letters of recommendation for Hermione? I bet the MOM would be wary of given Harry a time turner for the very reasons you mention Cat Eyes. But I love the theory!

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 7:12 PM EST

Order of Merlin, 2nd Class

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1782

Juno Puddifoot says:

Ima Quidditch fan :) Snape's pensieve/'worst' memory ... well my thoughts were initially that Snape had a crush on Lily, was mortified to be in that position at the hands of his enemy, and to top it all off, then calls Lily a mudblood. Kinda ruined any chance there.

I was thinking a similar thought to someone sorry can't remember who, who thought that Snape went over when he told DD that the Potters would be attacked or similar ... I was thinking maybe he went over (to DD) when they were killed ...

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 7:23 PM EST

Metamorphmagus

House: Gryffindor
Points: 37939

tonks black says:

luna lovegood - those are some good points about why Krum might not be the teacher. i never really thought he would be the teacher. not sure why
Ima Quidditch - its very possible that JKR could change her mind. and thats a good theory why it was snapes worst memory and it could explain why James had a seeker award but JKR said he was chaser.
eudaemonia - if harry became the DADA he would have to like..drop out of school because he would have to teach all day. unless he used a time turner, but everyone would know he had it cause he would teach and be in class at the same time.

my own personal opinion about the DADA job is either someone from the order(such as tonks who i think is cool.) or if it was harry, maybe dumbledore could get a penseive for him and harry could think of his lessons for each grade and then they could all go into the penseive for the class period or whatever you wanna call it?

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 7:28 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

tonks black - what if Harry was given a time turner to teach? Wouldn't the theory presented by Cat Eyes make perfect sense... he would be overcome with curiosity, and goes back...although I don't see it happening until Book 7?

One can not live while the other survives... maybe this means grown Harry and baby Harry in a moment in time.

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 7:34 PM EST

Metamorphmagus

House: Gryffindor
Points: 37939

tonks black says:

ima quidditch fan -in my post before yours, i brought up if harry was given a time turner but as someone said i doubt the ministry would give him one.
and i have a question about the time turners, in every single time period, if you go back in time in one, does that mean you got back in the rest of them before and after the one your in? that may be confusing but what im getting at is if harry goes back in time in book 6 or 7 to the time voldemort tried to kill him, wouldnt he of gone back in time when the him we are reading about almost got killed? sorry if thats really confysing..

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 7:41 PM EST

Editor of the Squibbler
(Moderator)

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2031

eudaemonia says:

tonks black: Not necessarily. He could be an assistant or a student instructor or an intern (or would it be wizard's apprentice?).

Oh that'd be perfect if Dumbledore decides to finally give Snape the job... more bonding time for the 2 of them, hehehehe.

But seriously I say again, I don't see Dumbledore's Army retiring anytime soon, so he could be the unofficial DADA instructor like he already was in OOTP.

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 7:50 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Tonks Black - I was restating your conversation to lesson confusion.. :) And yes, I see your point, that is what hit me...

Harry would be the same person in different points of time, AT the same interval in time... therefore, I wonder, if he somehow gains access to a time turner, and goes back to the point of origin for all of the series.... Voldemort trying to kill him, what would happen?

If baby Harry is killed in the fight Harry will have never existed beyond that point. If grown Harry somehow completely vanquishes Voldemort, baby Harry would grow up completely different, changing grown Harry forever...

Bizarre plot, but the more I think of it, and the more theories that post about probable methods to getting to this point (such as the DADA teaching needing time turner) I think it may be the end of the series.... it is just crazy enough to make sense. jade, Mad-Eye ...your thoughts?

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 7:53 PM EST

Metamorphmagus

House: Gryffindor
Points: 37939

tonks black says:

if harry did go back in time, would dumbledore allow him to go to that point when voldemort tried to kill him? maybe DD thinks its best that harry grew up the way he did because look how much power and stuff it gave him..

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 7:58 PM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 164

Kadyak says:

I'm sorry, but I am way behind here. I am back in the 1626-1650 range here.

Re: Petunia having magic: If find very inpausable. I should that she would have said something like, "I got one too, but I didn't want to go to that freak school." I really don't think that she could put up a charde of anti-wizardry just for Vernon's sake. Dudley would see through the charade and his attitude toward magic would be different. He might still treat Harry like garbage out of jealousy, but his attitude toward magic WOULD be different. After all, he is his mummy's ickle Dudkins.

Re Dudley having magic: It seems pretty evident to me that Dudley did NOT see the dementors. Let just say for a moment that he did have latent magic and therefore did see them. He still wouldn't have known what they were and shock of their appearance would have led him to describe what he had seen. If he was too scared of what he had seen to talk about it, he would be said so. He wasn't accusing Harry just to accuse Harry - not in this case. Terror was the driving force, and it was overwhelming him. He was beyond making up a story just to get Harry in trouble.

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 8:04 PM EST

Squib

House: Slytherin
Points: 142

Mad-Eye says:

hey ima- i dont think JK will use time-turners to that effect either. i think by not using it, it would reinforce the idea that magic doesnt solve everything and no one has the right to change history

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 8:20 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

tonks black - I think you are right, growing up that way did mold Harry into who he is, but I think his power comes from his genetic makeup (most likely from all of the founders) If Harry goes back in Book 7 and DD is killed in 6 he can't stop him.

This theory is like a run away train... I must get off of it! The outcome is so sad.

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 8:24 PM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 164

Kadyak says:

I have a question for Jade, Mad-Eye and any other British participants: I don't understand why Philosopher's Stone was named "Sorcerer's Stone" in the U.S. Is there something the meaning of "philosopher" that I don't understand? Is this difference based on a presupposition that the British mind would see Nicholas Flamel as a "philosopher" while Americans would consider him a "sorcerer"?

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 8:25 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Thank you Mad Eye! I knew that you would help me see the light!!!

Did you see my post about chapter 7 of PS/SS? Do you think the 'leading him to his doom.' was forshadowing the series end or a red-herring? jade - like me fears it is the worst.

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 8:28 PM EST

Squib

House: Slytherin
Points: 142

Mad-Eye says:

Kadyak- i never understood that myself. it seems to be a pointless change but maybe some deep research may or may not give an answer. sorry for not being very helpfull

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 8:28 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

(page 161-162 of first book US) Harry has a dream, and he is told that Slytherin is his destiny... another red-herring?

At the time I originally read it, I thought so, but after reading OOP, I wonder if it has to do with the unity of the houses.

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 8:31 PM EST

Squib

House: Slytherin
Points: 142

Mad-Eye says:

ima- yeah jade was teling me about it and sadly i do see sense it it, so it looks like Harry is doomed

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 8:32 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Polyuice13 - I think you explained your point beautifully. I am not sure about the time turner. I first was against the whole idea, but so many people have made such great arguments for it, I suppose it IS possible.

I think that if Harry goes back and changes his history, that his grown self will be killed... but to your question... the time turner wearer can turn the device to go back by turning it X number back... I assume that X number forward would be future. Think of the theories here... Can a person travel through time to the future, if they can go back, they can go forward.
IF they do, would an alternate reality be created? If at the point that new baby Harry is 17 will he continue to live? (Something like the Back to the future movies)

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 8:41 PM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 164

Kadyak says:

From the 1676-1700 post range:

SueB - I think your analysis and theory of the effect of Dudley turning out to be a wizard is excellent. I think that it is more consistent with the manifested psychology of all the characters involved. At the same time, I must wonder if Dudley would accept being a wizard? One the one hand, he has always held wizardry to be freakish. This response is deeply ingrained. On the other hand - it means POWER, and I am not sure Dudley could walk away from that. Might he refuse to go to Hogwarts but sneak around trying to learn magic on his own. In the end, might he turn out to be a dark wizard? Might he not be too tempted to use magic outside of school and find himself expelled rather quickly?

In the end, for Dudley to turn out to be a wizard, JKR would really have to think about the psychology of each character very carefully; of course she would do that; but I think we would find that it would create a very complex situation with a lot of internal conflict in everybody in the Dursley household, including Harry.

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 8:42 PM EST

Order of Merlin, 2nd Class

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1782

Juno Puddifoot says:

Well I was quite depressed finishing off OotP because of the feeling that harry was 'doomed' I mean with his family dead and now Sirius ... that was without that comment from PS. I'm sure he would sacrifice himself to finish off Voldie and if he thinks his family are just the other side of the veil, he is probably more inclined to sacrifice himself. *sighs*

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 9:00 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Polyuice13 I did not see the movie, but I think it is very possible. Yes, Puddifoot I think it is depressing too.... I have been considering today about not ready any more of the books. I am one of those people who has to know the ending first... I do not like to waste my time with something that is going to have a bogus ending that I hate. (I do not like books where the main character dies, and I am worried because of the addition I have to this series)

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 9:08 PM EST

Order of Merlin, 2nd Class

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1782

Juno Puddifoot says:

IQF, I'm a bit like that too BUT JK has done sooo good by us so far, I don't think she could be so cruel ?

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 9:10 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

I meant to say 'reading' not ready, and 'addiction' not addition... I am also helping my daughter do her Kumon homework....

Anyway, if there is someone that has a reasonable theory about Harry living to become and adult, PLEASE tell me now. I need to hear it.

Does anyone believe that Neville is the target of the prophecy?

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 9:13 PM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 164

Kadyak says:

SPosts 1701-1725

SueB - Excellent points!!! I think that you have hit on a critical point - JKR's message, reiterated in different way, over and over again, is that there are no short cuts, no easy solutions.

Furthermore, and this touches on what WitchyWays in her post in this same range, people don't just change their personalities or loyalties without a powerful impetus. JKR has been providing us with information about what drives different charcters. Snape is driven by anger, jealousy, etc. He isn't going to suddenly turn out to be charming. The same goes for Draco Malfoy. He has already shown what path he is going to take, bar a house falling on him, so to speak - he will seek to avenge the "wrong" done to his father.He has every reason to be loyal to his father. The same holds true with Dudley. Even if he were to be discovered to have magical power, he would not suddenly become a Harry Potter fan. He would either reject his newly discovered ability as freakish, or he would grab the power and become a very dark wizard. The only way he would align himself with Harry would be if his parents totally rejected him and Harry helped him through that - a very complex situation for JKR to work out.

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 9:20 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Thanks Pudifoot, that does help some. :)

Back to Neville and his plant... cure for werewolf, his parents or to beat Voldemort? Your thoughts?

I would love it if the plant could help Lupin. As I also hold out hope that Lupin is James... I love that theory and just can't get it out of my system.

The plant most likely is a cure for memories (that would help his mom and dad) as his memory seemed to improve a great deal over the year.

I know it must be very important, because Neville was interupted as he was explaining what it does... always a hidden clue during an interupted character.

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 9:22 PM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

I have a feeling that, whether Harry dies or not, J.K. will really surprise us in the end of the series. She's done a great job so far with amazing plot twists and endings, and I feel assured that she will write something that will boggle the minds of some and amaze the minds of others (maybe both). We have to remember that in every book brand new things were introduced, and I have a feeling that these new additions to the last two books will have a great effect on how they are ended.

Just for kicks and to show that we definetly have a lot to learn, I'll try to list all the major things we've learned in the books.

(May contain hints at possible spoilers.)

Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone: Er...too much to mention. Wizarding basics, maybe? Sounds good enough.

Chamber of Secrets: Parselmouths, basilisks, the Chamber itself, phoenixes (song, tears, etc.), heirs of houses in Hogwarts, Gryffindor's Sword, Polyjuice Potion, house elves (and how to free them), Misuse of Muggle Artifacts...anything else?

Prisoner of Azkaban: Marauders (people and map), Hogsmeade, Shrieking Shack, werewolves, Patronus, Dementors, Azkaban, secret keeping, Snape's rivalry, Hippogriffs, Time Turner, we meet Fudge...anything else?

Goblet of Fire: Triwizard Tournament, Portkeys, Apparating (I know it was mentioned earlier, but this was the first to really cover it), Pensieve, Death Eater trials, Unforgivable Curses, half-giants, the fact that there are other schools, Veela, Leprechauns, Mermaids/men, Neville's woes...anything else?

Order of the Phoenix: More on Neville's woes, thestrals, protection of bloodline (Evans), Department of Mysteries, the Veil (well, kinda), Occlumency, (insert the word here that Occlumency protects against), the adolescent crudeness of James Potter and Sirius Black, the Order of the Phoenix, (sorry, I can't remember names...insert the word here where people can change their appearance), Prophecies, the motives of Voldemort's attack on the Potters, Giants (including Hagrid's half-brother Grawp), the fate between Harry and Voldemort...anything else?

Well, we can bet our sweet bums that we'll be learning a lot more in the next two books, and this may very well completely change our theories on how the series will end.

Oh, and please note that this is a very brief overview of learned information, and I did it in five minutes without the books beside me, so forgive me if there's anything huge that I missed, which there undoubtedly is.

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 9:30 PM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 164

Kadyak says:

SPosts 1701-1725

SueB - Excellent points!!! I think that you have hit on a critical point - JKR's message, reiterated in different way, over and over again, is that there are no short cuts, no easy solutions.

Furthermore, and this touches on what WitchyWays in her post in this same range, people don't just change their personalities or loyalties without a powerful impetus. JKR has been providing us with information about what drives different charcters. Snape is driven by anger, jealousy, etc. He isn't going to suddenly turn out to be charming. The same goes for Draco Malfoy. He has already shown what path he is going to take, bar a house falling on him, so to speak - he will seek to avenge the "wrong" done to his father.He has every reason to be loyal to his father. The same holds true with Dudley. Even if he were to be discovered to have magical power, he would not suddenly become a Harry Potter fan. He would either reject his newly discovered ability as freakish, or he would grab the power and become a very dark wizard. The only way he would align himself with Harry would be if his parents totally rejected him and Harry helped him through that - a very complex situation for JKR to work out.

Posted Jul 13, 2003 at 9:30 PM EST