Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

My thoughts on the arch thing: Sirius is definitely dead. Once someone is dead there is no way to bring them back and it is always a bad idea. Dumbledore I believe says something about leaving the dead behind way back when Harry saw his parents in the Mirror of Erised, and he almost gives the Sorceror/Phil. stone to Quirell/Voldie when he promises to bring Harry's parents back. Bringing the dead back is BAD (in every story I've ever read, it's gone wrong...death is not to be tampered with). That archway may (and probably does) hold some meaning we'll find out but since even Dumbledore says Sirius is dead, I really do think he is. JMHO.

On a side note, phoenixfeathers brought up a very interesting point about Voldie dying unhappy so becoming a ghost? Good grief, what hell that would be!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 1:46 AM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 657

Wotcher_Tonks says:

Having just finished re-reading the book [a lot slower that the first read] The reason harry never opened the parcel that Sirius gave him was because he did not want to use anything that may make Sirius leave his house and endanger himself.

I dont think he was being stupid, just wanting to protect him.

Dumbledore stated in the last chapter that he thought he saw a glimmer of Voldie in Harry's eyes the couple of times that he looked harry directly in the eye and that was when Harry felt the urge to harm Dumbledore, so I agree with Iisashes that Voldie was in Harry at those times.

Well time to wander off and read it for the 3rd time, might start from Book 1.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 6:11 AM EST

Peeves says:

I suddenly realised that JKR had made a mistake in GoF regarding thestrals. Well, Harry had already seen cedric die when he was returning, so he should have seen them on his way back to the train at the end of term.
But u know, after reading OotP I feel I can forgive Jkr for anything but killing Sirius. Even more distressing was the revelation made by Dumbledore.
I cried like many of u and had dreams about Harry for the next 3 days.
But one good thing Harry has done is to ditch Cho; with so much on his hands now, I can't see him managing a Girlfriend as well.
I read extremely slowly so that I could sit with it forever.
The final fight is really 'stunning' and I felt sorry to put the book down in the end.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 6:26 AM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

i absolutely loved the book!!! but i have a number of questions tho:
1. it was said that james wasnt a prefect becos of all the stuff he did in school. but it book 1 hagrid said that he was head boy in hogwarts. how is that possible when both percy and mrs weasley said that being a prefect was the first step to head boyship? is being a prefect one of the prerequisites of being head boy or girl? pls enlighten..

2. anyone who touches the prophecy wld go made and was seen by what happened to bode. but harry passed it to neville in the department of mysteries AND he put it into the pocket of his robes which later split. how is it that he didnt go mad then?

thanks u all.. i actually sat down to read ALL 246 posts.. it was pretty intriguing and i cried like mad when sirius died.. i had thought itll be hagrid after reading all those rumours. that'll teach me not to trust all the stuff that i read on the net. speculations wont help at all.. oh!! when will she release the next book?!!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 7:59 AM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

I stil don't understand this whole thing about normal people going insane when they touch the prophecy. I mean, Neville touched it and nothing happened to him.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 8:10 AM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 65

Firefly says:

Does anyone have any idea when the audiobook is coming out in Australia (read by Jim Dale)? That guy is awesome - 134 voices, each one so distinctive!

Cheers guys, keep up the good work!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 9:07 AM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 468

Charlie'sMum says:

Hello. Hoping I'm not the only 'grown up' here! I just finished the book, and am reading comments, and feel like I must add my own. Going to copy the format that seems to be working well:
Harry - the anger thing was understandable. My grandmother died violently when I was 15, and I reacted much like Harry did, so I can totally see where he is coming from. And he DIDN'T know why he was left in the muggle world in the dark, so..and ultimately his love for his friends win over the anger. I think the thing he has that V. doesn't is compassion, but he really needs to cultivate it - he needs to understand Snape (get to him in a minute) and forgive him - and the Dursleys, and I think that compassion is what will win in the end. Love is what saved him from V.'s posession - he thought of being with Sirus and that's what drove V.away. Re: not seeing the horses at the end of last term, I don't remember if it says how they get back to the train - maybe they don't take the carriages? Or, maybe he was just too distracted and didn't see them. To paraphrase Lucy Lawless on a Simpsons episode - when something happens that doesn't make sense we just say "a wizard did it".
Snape - very complex character - I especially liked the way she threw in the vision of a man, obviously Snape's dad, yelling at Snapes mum. Snape is a damaged person and really if Harry doesn't learn to get past his dislike of him and see that, I'll be ticked. Not that Snape is blameless, he needs to get over James being mean to him. Grow up, dude.
James - very interesting to see him as a human being with flaws. Hard on Harry, but important I think.
Ron and Hermoine - they are going to get together eventually. They are a great couple and they already bicker like old marrieds!
Ron - SO happy he finally got to shine on his own. Prefect and Quiddich champion. His mirror vision seems to be coming true.
Hermoine - She is losening up quite nicely without losing he swotting edge.
Ginny - someone else said something about her being wise beyond her years - she had a pretty eventful first year, if you recall, and I think that changed her. Plus she is obviously an observant and resourceful girl - sneaking the brooms to practise flying etc. Personally I REALLY hope, as Ron obviously does, that Harry and Ginny get together. Then Harry really will be a part of the Weasley family.
Neville - hidden depths, that boy.
Aunt Petunia - LOVED learning that she knows more about the wizarding world than she let on. She may even prove an ally in the end. Who knows.
Umbridge - brilliant character. Total cow. George Orwell couldn't have come up with a more horrible person. I wanted even more comeuppance for her at the end, although I LOVED the way the teachers totally didn't lift a finger to help her.
Sirus - I don't know what was worse - that he died, or that it really kind of WAS Harry's fault that he did. If he just LISTENED to Herimoine. Or found that darn mirror sooner. Why didn't Sirus just tell him what it was? Sheeze.
Percy - Git. I think I have to agree that he may join the dark side. Git.
Someone else mentioned Buffy and I have to agree that Harry is a lot like Buffy now - set apart by a destiny that only he can fufill. Hopefully he won't alienate his friends as much as she did.
Loved how the OOP people stood up for Harry at the end.
Anyway, I could go on about all the characters, but I don't have time. Just want to say I think my favorite line was after the Quibbler article came out and the teachers showed Harry support without being able to say anything, and Professor Sprout gave him 20 points for handing her the watering can. Made me laugh out loud for some reason.
Bye all!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 9:34 AM EST

Headmaster
(Moderator)

Cheeser says:

CarolAlutius: You're certainly not the only adult here. I started the site and I'm 23 (if you consider that adult). In fact, half of everyone who's registered on the site is over 18.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 9:55 AM EST

Witch

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 558

Quagmire127 says:

Just something I noticed (I think). You know that Podmore guy? Wasn't the leader of the Headless Hunt Sir Patrick Delaney-Podmore or something like that? I remember Nearly Headless Nick calling him Sir Properrly-Decapitated Podmore. I'm not 100% sure if that's his name, but if it is, is there a significance? Some sort of connection?

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 11:23 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

eclektic, there's nowhere that says that you have to be a prefect before becoming Head Boy or Head Girl. I think Mr. and Mrs. Weasley say it's the first step because it usually is -- you would have already attracted the attention of the Headmaster. But Harry and his abilities are already known to Dumbledore and therefore he doesn't have to prove them as a prefect.

Concerning Neville and the Prophecy -- this is the same question as asking why the Death Eaters wanted him to give them the Prophecy. Apparently, the people concerned by the Prophecy can touch it AND have the right to entrust it to somebody else. Harry figured this one out because otherwise it makes no sense for the Death Eaters to be trying to get it.

hpfan2003, I think that there is still a lot that we humans don't understand about death. There are some diseases that we cannot cure yet, and sometimes people do die inexplicably. This is another one of those things, and in matters of death, it appears to me that the Wizarding World is on the same level as the Muggles are. It would make sense for someone to tell Harry, but the entire book is about people not necessarily doing that which makes sense. Even Dumbledore admits he's made his share of mistakes.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 12:21 PM EST

Marauder

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3954

jade says:

Silversmoke yes there is it is in the 1st book when they are in madame malkins and also yes July/ August

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 12:30 PM EST

Marauder

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3954

jade says:

Also i would just like to say that harry did follow hermonies advice and spoke to kreacher but he told harry that sirius was gone to the ministry so of course he would have believed the house elf anybody would have.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 12:58 PM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 306

Hedwig1974 says:

First time poster here! I have thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone's comments about Book 5. I agree with a couple of the other posters that Book 3 is still my favorite...but this one comes in at a close 2nd!

I am very intrigued by the whole "Beyond the Veil" sequence. I thought it was particularly interesting that there were rows of benches all around the archway with the veil...almost as if the "Unspeakables" sat around and obtained information from voices beyond the grave. I think that this will probably come into play in 6 and 7...maybe Harry will consult James, Lily, and now Sirius...but I guess he has to figure out how.

And whose brains were those??? Did anyone think it was really weird that the brains were swimming around? Bizarro!

I also thought it was pretty funny that one of the Death Eaters cast a drunkenness spell on Ron. Wow, I mean...that's the best they could do?? :)

I thought the exposition chapter with Dumbledore was a bit long...but interesting. I thought it was amazing how much this scene plays out like a conversation between a father and a son. Perhaps that's one reason why Sirius had to die...to further pull into the notion of Dumbledore as father figure to Harry. And how sweet was it when Dumbledore told Harry about their relationship being more than that between a headmaster and a student. Wow. The tears were a -pouring!

Cheers!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 1:14 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 988

Yami-Tenshi says:

We know hold in our hands the best book in the world! JKR really outdid herself. She hit all the hard points that run through our minds at Harry's age (I should know I am 15 aswell) I am glad he got over Cho. She was an infatuation on what he saw from afar. (Belive me I have done this not to long ago infact) THough I felt so sorry for him. Why did Sirius have to die? I told my mum and she just smirked and said "did he see the body?" I said "no" "Then he is not dead. THere is no proof" Thanks a million! THough she is right he may just be in a different world or something. THough it is unlikely as JKR did say in an interview that she killed a character off and she was really upset. Know I am confused! Well we got a lot of answers yet know we have new questions. And know that we only have 2 books left what will be of us after book 7. THere will be A LOT of people with A LOT of extra time! Well jsut a thought.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 1:20 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

ok, hpfan2003, Sirius was killed by Bellatrix Lestrange durign their duel. Yes he is dead... no... he is not coming back. the archway is like the the doorway to whatever lies after death, and i think that's what the veil is too... someone correct me about the veil again...

and yes, as Muggle Wizard said, humans don't undersand death... wizards or muggles. Nick tried to explain it, but iit seems the kind of thing that you can't understand unless you've been there. it seems to me that wizards who are ready for it go on, but Nick wasn't. somehow, i'd rather go on, it would be more restful, like nick was saying how he someitmes regretted that he chose to saty behind...

sounds like the elves in LOTR--they can go out of Middle Earth or stay, but some feel that dying would be best... i mean... think of how it would feel to know you'll exist forever??? creepy.... and long time....

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 1:21 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

I'm confused -- why do we think the wizard is Dumbledore?

I think the bigger point about the fountain is that the Ministry of Magic has conveyed this impression that wizards and witches are superior to all over magical folk. I think this will have to change if there is going to be a final victory over Voldemort. It has already been hinted throughout the books. The S.P.E.W. thing, the hatred of the centaurs toward the wizards, and then the whole question about whose side the goblins will take in this whole thing....

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 1:35 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 988

Yami-Tenshi says:

eclektic
Ok I don't know exactly about the profesy,though as Malfoy told Harry To hand it over I suppose that the person whe is in the profesy has to retreave it yet he/she can give it to someone else. Or Malfoy would not have been so eager for Harry to fork it over. AT least I think this is the case. I may be wrong yet it is what makes sence

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 1:40 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

to muggle wizard:
regarding the 1st question that i posted, that was what i thought as well in the end. that being a prefect wasnt a pre requisite for being head boy or girl. not neccessarily at least.. and abt wat u said abt the death eaters later and them wanting the prophecy frm harry, yeah! i didnt realise that actually. pretty obvious though. felt a bit foolish.. so i guess only the person himself is able to take it frm the shelf but its later able to hand it over to other pple..

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 2:05 PM EST

Marauder

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3954

jade says:

Hedwig1974 you do have an intresting point i was also wandering why they had brains. I do not think the death eater put a drunkness spell on him the book never actully states what spell was used on Ron.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 2:53 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

hpfan 2003 and aravis, yes, I also think that Sirius is undoubtedly dead. And I was thinking, I remember JK saying somewhere in an interview that her favorite chapter is the Mirror of Erised chapter from the Philosopher's Stone. If Harry ever sees the mirror again (I doubt he will), he might see Sirius in it. Also, this is totally irrelevant, but I've always found Peeves to be a highly unusual character. I mean, he's a ghost, so following Nick's rules he logically had to have been afraid of death. But that's hard to believe considering Peeves's nature--a mischevious troublemaker. I wonder what Peeves was like when he was alive and whether his death had anything to do with the Bloody Baron.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 3:11 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

silversmoke: Maybe the apparating thing can happen once you become "of age" which in the Wizarding World (as I understand it) is age 17. Perhaps the twins' 17th birthday was in the summer and Percy's came during the school year? (I honestly don't remember everything about age here though.)

Crucio: Your idea (in my opinion) contradicts the Prophecy somewhat. Not that both can't die, but the Prophecy does indicate that neither Voldemort nor Harry can "live" while the other "lives". If Harry dies before Voldemort, then the Death Eaters (IMO) will prevail. If Voldemort dies before Harry, then the Order prevails. I can, however, imagine both being killed during the same battle (although I would HATE that!).

Erodelbmud: I agree on your thoughts about Sirius' death. JKR said that the death was "horrible to write" -- gosh, if this was bad, then we might wait a LONG time to get her to write the other deaths that are sure to come. Your questions about the implications of the death are huge, and unfortunately, our speculations here are probably not very likely to approach what JKR will do.

Gosh, just give me Book 6 already...!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 3:36 PM EST

Order of Merlin, 1st Class

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1881

DarkPhoenixRising says:

I can't wait for book 6. I thought we would learn more about Lily and James. What's the deal with Sirius living in that house with that awful picture yelling obscenities all the time? Was he is(and James) Slytherin? They sure did seem like jerks in the pensieve, VERY Malfoy like... I have a feeling we are going to see Sirius again. Probably not in a corporeal form, but, probably as a ghost. Harry could hear voices from the other side of the veil, so, there is obviously something there to communicate with. What did you guys think about Luna Lovegood. We should really pay attention to what she says. She may be a bit off, but, I think JK wants us to think her opinions are not credible. And, she sure did seem to be dropping some sort of clues at the end. I love the way JK made us think Mr. Weasley was the one to die, then McGonagall. She sure is tricky like that. Well, Im done for now. I have to go start reading that wonderful book again... Cheers


P.S. What's up with Hagrid, he seemed a little disconnected in this book. And I don't mean not being around. When he was with Harry and all he didn't seem to be as interested as usual. And, don't you think we would've seen Madam Maxime too?

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:15 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 468

Charlie'sMum says:

Just wanted to add more thoughts. Am enjoying the site - no one else I know has read the book yet, so I don't have any one to discuss it with!
Anyway - Peeves is a polterguist - different from ghost in that his whole reason for existing is to toss things around.
I wondered about the twins apperating, too - since Percy didn't pass the test until after he left Hogwarts. Then I remembered that the twins did say something about being almost 17 (in April I think) in book 4 so maybe you have to be 17 and Percy wasn't 17 until his 7th year.
And she didn't say what color light hit Sirus when he died. The way I read it though he was killed, not stunned. (boo hoo) And even though Harry lost his godfather, he discovered he still has 'family' around him - the Weasleys and the OOP people, so that should help him out.
Ohh - one more thing - I think its good Ginny no longer has a hero-worship thing with Harry, because its important when they do start dating that they meet as equals. :)

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:28 PM EST

Order of Merlin, 1st Class

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1881

DarkPhoenixRising says:

Hey phoenixashes, I think ghosts must have some mass to them. When Nick was "petrified" by the basilisk in book 2, they used a fan to get him to the hospital wing. And, at the deathday party they had rotten food to float through. And Peeves isn't a ghost, he's a poltergeist. What that means, I have no idea. Any suggestions from anyone else...

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:28 PM EST

blair morning says:

phoenixashes - i think that harry and cho have a lot in common. they both like quidditch. they are both seekers. cedric's death upset both of them quite a bit(although this is probably not a good thing to build a relationship around). they were both involved with the d.a. but, i think that cho seems to...get around a lot. i was dumped six months ago, and i'm just now dating again. i mean, my boyfriend didn't die, but it ripped me apart! i don't know how cho could be ready to get involved with harry only two months after cedric died! (i'm saying two months b/c cho first approached harry on the train to school, which shows that she's interested.)

also, why did nothing happen between ron and hermione? in an interview jkr gave on 6/20, she implied that there was something going on w/ ron and hermione rather that w/ harry and hermione, and i think that we can all agree that ron and hermione looked likely, based on GoF. instead, ron and herm just bickered like an old married couple throughout the book. the only reason i can think of why they stopped the subtle flirting is b/c they were dating in secret, but that doesn't seem like the type of thing hermione would do. i've read the book 3 times since saturday (i finished it the first time in 8.5 hours!), and i don't think i've missed anything between ron and hermione. that disappointed me more than anything else (except sirius of course)

wow sorry to ramble on and on...bad habit i guess!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:28 PM EST

blair morning says:

phoenixashes - i think that harry and cho have a lot in common. they both like quidditch. they are both seekers. cedric's death upset both of them quite a bit(although this is probably not a good thing to build a relationship around). they were both involved with the d.a. but, i think that cho seems to...get around a lot. i was dumped six months ago, and i'm just now dating again. i mean, my boyfriend didn't die, but it ripped me apart! i don't know how cho could be ready to get involved with harry only two months after cedric died! (i'm saying two months b/c cho first approached harry on the train to school, which shows that she's interested.)

also, why did nothing happen between ron and hermione? in an interview jkr gave on 6/20, she implied that there was something going on w/ ron and hermione rather that w/ harry and hermione, and i think that we can all agree that ron and hermione looked likely, based on GoF. instead, ron and herm just bickered like an old married couple throughout the book. the only reason i can think of why they stopped the subtle flirting is b/c they were dating in secret, but that doesn't seem like the type of thing hermione would do. i've read the book 3 times since saturday (i finished it the first time in 8.5 hours!), and i don't think i've missed anything between ron and hermione. that disappointed me more than anything else (except sirius of course)

wow sorry to ramble on and on...bad habit i guess!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:28 PM EST