Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 643

Hermaninny says:

Tatipotter, as far as the veil goes, no one's quite sure what it is (may be why it's in the department of mysteries). It's some sort of portal between life and death. Harry was compelled to it, he could hear the voices behind it (maybe his dead parents and Cedric?) and Luna also was aware of the voices, and she's experienced death, too.

The portrait matter for Sirius, I personally would love to see one. But realistically, we don't really understand how the portraits come to life, so to speak. Would Sirius had had one drawn, being as he turned his back on his family and was rather young when he went to Azkaban? I doubt one can be produced postmortem.

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 1:03 PM EST

Wizard

House: Slytherin
Points: 533

dimtick says:

I-Pie: they're at war now, and in war people die. As the group (DA) gains powers and abilities they are going to take greater and greater risks. Voldemort is now out in the open and has more on his mind than just getting Harry, this now puts everyone at risk whereas before that risk was always focused on Harry. Of course Harry will still be a target. But V may see it as more advantagous to kill Harry's friends who are less protected than Harry. How many people were killed during V's first reign of terror?

On a side note - I do really hope that the DA will work on "group tactics" , they've shown over & over again how effective it is to team up (blasting Draco on the train - both times, blasting the shelving in the DOM). So much of wizarding is portraid as a one-one thing (dueling), but they are so much more effective when they work in concert. Learn to think like an "Army" rather that just call themselves one. (sorry I'm a big fan of Enders Game - this was kind of the first lesson) - i only say this because I think this is how they could keep the body count low (at least on their side).

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 1:15 PM EST

Auror

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2374

TrueBluePotterFan says:

Even though there have been NO announcements about deaths in HP6, I would agree with the speculations that there will be deaths in HP6. After all, HP6 is the start of the second war. And people die in wars. I also think that one will be someone major. I don't think it will be any of the main trio, nor do I beleive DD or V will be killed in 6.

I am predicting that there will be at least two deaths in HP7 though, DD & V. Yes that's right. V will kill DD while he is trying to protect Harry. Then Harry will kill V. DD's death will give Harry the motivation to use an unforgivable curse.

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 1:27 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

ok, i was still thinking about the death thing and whether harry or voldemort would live past the 7th book. this is my other theory.

if we refer to what dumbledore said in his conversation with voldemort, he states that there are worse fates than death itself. assuming that dumbledore is foreshadowing something in the future, this would seem that he is suggesting that voldemort would not die but instead live a life of eternal torment. linking this to the prophecy, it states that neither can live while the other survives. wouldnt this then mean that it harry would die since voldemort lives? i feel that this is possible because we realise that almost everything that dumbledore mentions does come true. on top of that, death itself would be too easy a way out for voldemort wouldnt it, after all the evil that he has done?

another interesting point about the prophecy is that it did not refute the possibility of both harry and voldemort dying. so it could really be a likelihood in the end.
comments?

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 2:06 PM EST

Madam Librarian

House: Gryffindor
Points: 13648

I-Pie says:

In the first war, it sounds like they were not ready for
Voldemort. Also, Lupin told Mrs. Weasley they were better
prepared and that the first time, V and his DE's hunted
down the Order one by one. This time they have a
secret headquarters and are being more careful. Plus the Order know most of the DEs.

I know people will die, but I am betting that Harry, Ron, Hermione, DD, Tonks, Lupin, McGongall, Hagrid and the Weasley's survive. I am not so sure about Moody and a lot
of the other secondary characters like Fierenze and Kinglsey (sp).

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 2:09 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

refering to my previous post where i mentioned that jkr would kill of harry's character and end it in such a way that he returns to his family and to sirius..

i ran this theory past my friend and she mentioned that jkr herself was not a conventional author and that she probably would steer clear of the 'tried and tested' route and refrain from concluding the end in too neat a package and provide a twist instead. i was thinking abt it further and thought that wouldnt having harry die in the end be a twist in itself? since people are hoping that he would live and that the hero in the book rarely dies? as much as id like it to not be so, i wouldnt put it past jkr to kill of harry.
ah.. say it isnt so... :(

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 2:13 PM EST

Wizard

House: Slytherin
Points: 533

dimtick says:

TrueBluePotterFan: I don't Harry will ever use a unforgivable curse on V. These curses are V's weapons. I think as Harry learns about his mysterious abilities (love) he will have weapons of his own.

ecklectic: there has been a ton of discussion on the V dying thing. My feeling is that V is no longer "human" enough to be able to die. My prediction is that Herry will somehow cast him into the veil and thus condemn him to the eternal torment everyone is talking about (and that DD hinted at). If V goes through the veil he will leave the physical world and from that since be "dead" but his spirit would be trapped wherever that veil is a gateway to.

No matter what JK may hint at, there is no way that Harry would ever die in the end. JK know that her fan base are children, and would never think about killing off the main dude. These aren't those kind of books. The absolute worse thing I see happen is that Harry finds himself trapped someplace (veil) which would open things up for further books beyond 7.

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 2:22 PM EST

Auror

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2374

TrueBluePotterFan says:

eclektic - What is meant by "lives" in the prophecy? Maybe V would be in such a state as he was up until the end of GOF when he was living a "Half-life". Maybe when DD mentioned there are things worse than death, that V may end up in a state that is not dead, but also would not be considered living. Such as being kissed by a dementor. The body still exists, but the soul is sucked out. This may not be death, but is it living?
As with many other things JK puts in her books, she may interpret the word "lives" different from us. Maybe we are taking it too literally.

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 2:24 PM EST

Auror

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2374

TrueBluePotterFan says:

dimtick - I think V can die, but as stated previously, the prophecy does not say that V will die, but that he and Harry can not both "live". I do agree with you about V being killed physically, but not spiritually.

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 2:31 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

HGreenbacker8705,TrueBluePotterFan:

i do agree with the both of you regarding the possibilty if the death thing. firstly in my posts a long time ago, i mentioned that it is a kids book and that she probably wouldnt want the series to be so downright depressing for kids in the end.

i know this can be longshot (but jus hear me out for a bit..) jkr has written the last chapter if the 7th book hasnt she? and there have not been any reports whatsover abt her feeling anguished by the ending that she has written has she? i mean, reports were everywhere that she was depressed when she killed of sirius' character and comparing it to the importance of harry in the entire series, if she did kill him off in the end, wouldnt she feel really depressed abt it? after all she has said many many times that she misses harry's character the most after she completes each book. i dont know if im stretching it too far though. lol. what do u guys think?

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 2:50 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

HGreenbacker8705:

i never really thought about the fate of harry's character initially. i assumed that it was a given that he was going to live past his 7th year. i think that all these speculations about harry's eventual destiny started when jkr herself mentioned (especially when she reminded us at the albert hall event) that we shouldnt take it for granted that he would live following his duel with voldemort.. she didnt want us to be too sure about things to come and keep us in suspense about future plots. all i can say is, well Ms Rowling, you definitely have succeeded..

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 2:58 PM EST

Marauder says:

It's been a while since I've been online, but I'm happy to see that a few things I mentioned are still being talked about.I've got a suggestion on whether Harry or Voldemort will die.

First, if you reread the chapter where DD explains the prophecy, everyone knows that Harry has special powers and that his parents and Neville's parents both defied Voldemort 3 times. DD then tells Harry that he has already done something that neither of the couples could do, Harry defied Voldemort 4 times (if you count CoS then 5 times). So, I think that since Harry did things that neither of his parents could do maybe he will be able to do something else they couldn't which is to survive.

When you consider that he's been doing things other wizards and witches could never do, it's easy to beieve that he will survive.

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 3:45 PM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 130

CheriK says:

AND, Marauder, Harry has a special weapon that Voldie cannot touch or do anything with, so Harry is one up on Voldie. But does Voldie have a wepon we dont know about?

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 3:52 PM EST

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

So we know that either Voldie or Harry must die. But what if they have more little "meetings" and still neither dies? I mean, one has to kill the other, but what if that didn't happen by the end of the series? I do think it will, some way or another. Just something I thought about. You know, all the "what ifs" and such.

And I say Harry does not like Hermione. They are very close friends. JK has said their relationship is strictly platonic. Ron and Hermione I hope for. Harry and Ginny I hope for, but am not very sure about.....

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 4:05 PM EST

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

Harry has power we don't know about yet I think. Maybe not even he knows about it. I mean, he can do some pretty cool uncontrolled magic with no wand right? Blow up aunt Marge, make the cupboard door fly open for him.... And now we know he can do somewhat weak controlled magic with out the wand in hand. Lighting up that wand was something that caught my attention right away. I don't know if it means anything, though, but definitely interesting. And very good point CheriK. Maybe there is a weapon for both of them, if the idea behind them being marked as equal goes a little further than we'd like to think.

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 4:15 PM EST

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

Percy does not seem to me like one who would admit he was wrong and change his way. But I could be wrong. Most of the Death Eaters broke out of Azkaban. The dementors won't be hard to persuade. Everyone knows who those Death Eaters are now, so i don't think they will be a part of the Ministry anymore. People know the truth.

I wonder what power Harry has. Or is the weapon something we have seen all along? Right from the start, kind of like the ancient magic that protected Harry at the Dursley's. We wondered what it was, but it was so dang obvious. His mother's blood. So is this weaplon he has something new, or something we have always known about?

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 4:22 PM EST

Madam Librarian

House: Gryffindor
Points: 13648

I-Pie says:

Maybe Buckie can go back to Hagrid. Since the Malfoy's
are in disgrace would the MOM care about him. Did Hagrid
mention if they live in the wild so that they could set
him free to live with his kind? Since Lupin was living
with Sirius at the time of his death, he could take care of him for awhile.

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 4:54 PM EST

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

Wormtail definitely does not count anymore. Even if he does something in the future to help, becuase he decides to betray Voldie, he's still a coward that as good as killed Harry's parents, went back to Voldie, helped him get his body back, and then Voldie killed Sirius and if Wormy hadn't helped Voldie ger a body back, Sirius might still be alive. I mean he is important though, because Dumbledore said there may be a time when Harry may be glad he saved Wormy's life..... And now Harry has no father figure except maybe Lupin or Dumbledore. Godfather dead, parents dead.... I'm pretty curious as to why we didn't see our little friend Wormtail in this book. What's he up to?

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 5:16 PM EST

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

I think we should have known Siruis was going to die. I mean, no one thought he would. Well, maybe someone did, but most didn't. He transformed into a black dog. Harry, when he was in trouble at the match, saw a black dog, and assumed it was a grim. We find out later he was an animagus and he just transformed to a dog. But the association was already made between Sirius and a death omen. We should have known. What else did we miss?

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 5:55 PM EST

ab2421 says:

As far as the prophecy, I think that Dumbledore left something out and maybe both will die.... cuz i dont see harry dead and voldemort alive.... cuz he is either alive and causing chaos or weak without supporters in which case he will die quickyl.... and i dont think jkr will end the series with voldemort still in power... tricky.....

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 5:58 PM EST

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

By the way, CheriK and I came up with that thing about Sirius. She'll get mad at me if I don't give her partail credit for it. The ancient magic that protected Harry at the Dursleys was pretty obvious too, but we didn't see it. We caought things like who Mrs Figg was, but geez, we miss the obvious big stuff. What else?

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 5:58 PM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

My interpretation of the "one cannot live while the other survives" line is that once Harry or Voldemort is killed, the killer becomes mortal again; they regain life. Neither is really "living" right now in the sense that they are immortal, except to each other. They are not living mortal lives in the sense that an illness or crisis cannot kill them (unless the crisis involves one killing the other). So, the defintion of "live" I thought of when I read this is:

live - v. to carry out an ordinary, mortal life.

Thus, neither Harry nor Voldemort follows that definition of living now. Once one of the two ceases to survive, the other will live (be mortal) once again.

Just my interpretation. Any thoughts?

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 6:55 PM EST

Tonks510 says:

i am confused? maybe its because i just skimmed the posts.

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 7:38 PM EST

Order of Merlin, 2nd Class

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1783

Juno Puddifoot says:

Newt Scamander
I like that. I think there is more to the wording of the prophecy than first reading. But were does this leave Voldemort if he was to kill Harry ... to become mortal?

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 7:51 PM EST

Animagus

House: Gryffindor
Points: 19544

Sirius-Ella says:

Newt Scamander:
WOW that is a really good interpretation!! I really believe this could be true for the HP series...I never thoght that!! good idea Newtie lol j/p about the silly name lol.....I have not really a theory or suggestion..more of a question...In the SECOND Year..when I'm think Harry was telling Ron about Tom M. Riddle and how he had head boy and prefect...and ron said That sounds like Percy...this kinda scared me...does this maybe mean that percy WILL go to the dark side? *shudder*

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 8:23 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Newt Scamander - I think your explanation is brilliant! AND it explains a lot... for example, how can they both be walking around right now. Very perceptive.

Another thing it explains, have you ever wondered if Snape DID poison Harry with his potion?

He seems to heal easily... even the basalik should have killed him in a minute according to Voldemort, but he had time stab the book, getting rid of shadow Tom, talk to Ginny, and talk to Fawkes. Much more than a minute.

Also, a 20 foot fall, even aided by DD, that could kill a person.

The poison of the giant spider? Seemed to make him ill, but according to my memory of Great Beasts, it was poison.

There seem to be many moments that should have killed Harry, but he survive. Until your theory, I just thought it was because he was the hero... but this makes perfect sense!

Posted Jul 17, 2003 at 8:24 PM EST