Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Puddifoot - Awesome catch on the class issue of wizards! Since Sirius and James became friends, were do you think the Potters were?

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 10:41 AM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 130

CheriK says:

Leslie: after the meeting of the OotP right when harry arrives, Mrs. Weasley find the dungbombs Ginny threw at the door. She askswhy they are there, and Ginny says that Crookshanks did it, when we, the reader, knows she did it. It is no page 75, American edition.

And also, have you ever noticed that Hermy, when lying, studders? Well, notice that. I have gone through my book five and every time Hermy lies, she studders.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 11:01 AM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 130

CheriK says:

and my last comment was for Leslie, about thirty coments ago!

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 11:03 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 771

Dragan Glas says:

Greetings,

SueB Voldemort is *not* "Theft of Life" - it's "Wing of Death" (remember the French dish, Vol Au Vin).

Harry and Hermione have their wands returned to them in the forest by their friends who've successfully escaped from the Inquisatorial Squad (their wands were originally taken from them in Umbridge's office)

Snape is not a servant of Malfoy - that's what a house-elf is for. I think that, at school, he had no friends as such and that, rather than be part of the "goodies" led by Dumbledore, which included people he disliked (James and Sirius) he drifted towards the "baddies" (Riddle, Malfoy et al). Having been with them for a time, he found that he didn't want to be with them either (like Sirius' younger brother, only more careful) and chose the lesser of two evils - to spy on behalf of Dumbledore's group which led to the Death Eaters being captured (around the time of Harry's parents being killed).

Harry's eyes being green does not signify that he has healing powers. The colour *is* associated with healing. I can't help thinking of two things in relation to the Prophecy:
1) Harry and Voldemort share the latter's talent (Harry has his own as well)
2) Pages 415-6. The unexplained incident relating to the silver device and Dumbldore's thinking out loud.
I'm certain that this explains why one or other must die. They both can't live linked as they are by the failed curse. Also, it is possible that Harry is Slytherin's heir.

Any thoughts?

Dragan Glas

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 11:47 AM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

Dragan Glas - I believe that both Tom and Harry are Slytherin's Heir because only the heir to Salazar Slytherin could open the Chamber of Secrets, yet both Harry and Tom did*. I believe that, with the powers that entered Harry upon Voldemort's failed killing curse, came some of Slytherin's blood. Harry inherited the Parselmouth tongue and enough blood to open the Chamber. I wonder if we'll find anything else out about Slytherin that Harry has inherited from Voldemort.

I also noticed that these powers weren't really "transferred" as Dumbledore told Harry, but were temporarily shared. If Harry manages to kill Voldemort (which will pretty much undoubtfully happen), I believe that he will no longer share the scar or these inherited powers, which leads me back to the whole "one cannot live while the other survives" shindig. Just as Harry isn't living an "ordinary, mortal life" (I posted on this somewhere towards 1976, I believe), he isn't living entirely in his life. I believe that when Voldemort ceases to survive (as we can assume will happen), Harry will not only gain back his mortality to everything (not just to Voldemort), but will regain his full self; he will no longer be "part Riddle."

* - I don't include Ginny in this, of course, because it was only her body that opened it, but it was Tom's mind and will that did what needed to be done to open it.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 12:12 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 771

Dragan Glas says:

Newt Scamander
There is no evidence to suggest that Harry didn't already have the ability to speak Parselmouth - if he is Slytherin's heir - diluted as that blood might be.

Also, the failed curse would not have meant actual blood transferring to Harry, just Voldemort's talent.

I also believe that the sealed room in the Ministry which has the same power of which Harry has a share will play a part in their final confrontation.

Perhaps also Sirius will be spoken to by Harry in the room with the veiled arch.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 12:33 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 771

Dragan Glas says:

SueB
I think I should correct myself - I should have said "Flight of Death"

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 12:46 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

Hi! I'm sorry if I'm posting something that has nothing to do with your latest topic, but I was watching Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets yesterday and I noticed something (another mistake) I may be wrong ... remember the sock that made Lucius free Dobby? wasn't it an old sock that the Dursleys sent Harry for christmas? the sock that freed Dobby in the movie was a gray sock part of the hogwarts uniform...wasn't it?

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 1:46 PM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

Ferdalba - J.K. Rowling said in an interview that Dumbledore didn't want Snape as a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher because he thought that the job would bring out the worst in Snape, and he didn't want Snape dealing with Dark magic with students. Otherwise, Snape surely would've gotten the job above Lockhart, and maybe even Quirrel.

Dragon Glas - I didn't even think of Harry maybe having the ability to speak Parseltongue before deflecting Tom's curse. And, while I agree that blood couldn't be transferred through thin air into Harry, I do believe that the powers that reside in the "blood" (not literally blood, but the powers inherited in Salazar's bloodline) were somehow put into Harry. Of course, if a number of people's theories are true and Lily or James were related to Voldemort (which would be another reason he would have chosen Harry over Neville to mark) in some way, then Harry could indeed be the heir to Slytherin.

Girliegirl - I don't have the second book on hand, but in the fourth book when the trio first goes to the cafeteria to see Dobby, it says that he wore "odd socks. One of these, Harry saw, was the black one Harry had removed from his own foot and tricked Mr. Malfoy into giving Dobby, therefore setting Dobby free." (Page 376, US Edition) Assuming that this wasn't an error, Harry gave Dobby his one of his own socks, which would be a Hogwarts uniform sock.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 2:18 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

ferdalba:
this issue was discussed in the previous posts. jkr didnt make dumbledore assign snape the DADA post because she/he thought that it would bring out the worse in him. i think that it would make him more vulnerable to the dark arts and feed his appetite on it. remember quirrel who sank so deeply into tha dark arts that he later was 'possesed' by voldemort? i feel that the same thing might happen to snape. perhaps this would make him to be more accesible to the dark side and his loyalty to dumbledore might be compromised..

dragon glas:
i agree with you about how voldemort's talents were transfered to harry not his biological traits. that is why harry was able to speak parseltongue.

abt how harry was able to open the chamber of secrets:
im actually confused as to how this is possible. after all, it is said that only the true heir of slytherin is able to open the chamber. if this is so then how was harry able to open the chamber then?
this is me theorizing; perhaps harry could open the chamber of secrets because he could speak parseltongue, thanks to voldemort? this doesnt mean that he was slytherin's heir because he got voldemort's talents through the failed curse. but there is something else in the chamber that would only respond to the heir as well, the basilisk
we see that in the chamber, harry couldnt command it. only tom riddle could and the latter commanded the snake to kil harry. so looking at this, perhaps the chamber of secrets had to be opened first by the heir and can subsequently be opened by anyone who has had some connection to that person. (that is to say, the person had to be linked to tom riddle ie harry) BUT, only the heir himself can control the basilisk and purge the school of its impurities that it had set out to do. so in conclusion, harry does not have to be related in blood to slytherin. is this logical?
comments?

i just have difficulty believing harry is blood related to slythrin. it seems like a chimaerical theory.. i always thought that his father's side was related to gryfindore himself. sorry if this is long..

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 2:23 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

I don't have the second book on hand neither...it's in my grandma's house, she is reading it!lol...but I'm pretty sure that the sock that was in the book ("the one that harry removed from his own foot") was the sock that the Dursleys sent harry for christmas...and the Hogwarts uniform socks are grey ,,, dark grey,,,you can watch some pictures of hermione (since she is wearing a skirt) so you can see her socks...I remember that Dobby was wearing the sock in his head and everything ....A'm I wrong?

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 2:30 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

no one has mentioned it before (except in passing in the very early posts) but i jus thought that i might share my stream of consciousness here.. lol.

i was thinking about the hats that hermione made(well woolly bladders as ron had put it) and how she wanted them to aid in the liberation of the house elves. they then saw this as an insult and refused to come and clean the gryffindor common room after that. at first i thought the possibility of them being liberated was impossible because dont the house elves themselves do the hogwarts students' laundry? if they have been picking up the clothes of all the students then shouldnt they be freed by the droves by now? i mean, how is that logical? then i realised that the house elves are not bound to the students but to the person who employs them ie dumbledore. only he is the one with the power to free the house elve that is in his charge. a good evidence of this is that dobby has been steadily collecting all of hermiones's knitted hats but he has not been freed at all. so it is futile for a student to attempt to free the house elves because they have no authority to do so..

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 2:35 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

ferdalba- I think Harry was able to open the chamber because he could speak parcel...but remember that the sorting hat didn't put him in slytherin because Harry didn't want to be in slythering

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 2:36 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

eclektic- what do you think about the sock thing...There is a mistake in the movie...I think...do you have the second book near you?

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 2:39 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

to add to my previous post, the rest of the house elves refuse to clean gryffindor common room not because they fear of being freed but see this as an insult to the very essence of being a house elf; unflinching servitude to its master, and any attempts to destabalise that position is seen as degrading their dignity.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 2:39 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

girliegirl:
the sock that harry gave to dobby was his school sock. if i remember correctly, in harry's 3rd year, he used uncle vernon's old socks to muffle the sneakoscope that was whistling in his trunk. come christmas that year, he gave it to dobby because he did not have any present for him. he mentioned the socks as being the last pair of socks that he would ever wear; uncle vernon's knobbly old socks or smth like that.. i was trying to quote but i dun have my 3rd book with me. lol

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 2:45 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

Eclektic- you are right...I remember that from the third book!...perhaps I was wrong...but the Hogwarts uniform socks aren't black! lol ....thanks!

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 2:52 PM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

This is why I never make any assumption that something in the movie is a fact. Right here, we are brought to these questions: Was Harry just not wearing his uniform socks that day? Are girls' uniform socks different from boys'? Did the movie incorrectly replicate Hogwarts school uniform? Was there an error in the fourth book?

I don't know which of those four would get the answer "yes" to, but frankly, I'm not too worried about it. ::Laughs::

To clear up my earlier post, I didn't mean that blood from Salazar Slytherin literally transferred to Harry's body (if it did, then Harry would truly be Slytherin's heir, albeit accidently). I was referring to the symbolistic "blood," meaning the powers inherited throughout the decents of the Slytherin family, or "bloodline." There is no doubt that Voldemort is Slytherin's heir, but surely if he is, there are others within his family that also could have opened the Chamber but didn't. So, the question for the whole "Could Harry truly be a natural heir to Slytherin?" could be phrased "Is Harry a decendent of Salazar Slytherin?" If he is, then one side of his family is related to the Riddles (not the Riddles by name, as "Riddle" was the Muggle surname, but to the mother of Tom Marvolo Riddle). I wonder...

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 3:03 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

Newt Scamander:
what was the mistake in the 4th book?

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 3:53 PM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

Eclektic - I never said that there was an error in the fourth book. I was saying that, if the movies are right and the students wear grey socks, then either Harry wasn't in uniform the night he freed Dobby or there was a mistake in the fourth book. It's not much of a concern, but there is probably a mistake somewhere. Meh.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 4:07 PM EST

Animagus

House: Gryffindor
Points: 19544

Sirius-Ella says:

I have a quick question...I know newt doesn't like us pointing out facts about the movies mistakes..but this wasn't a mistake I don't think...when Hermione was showing Harry the trophes his father won when he was at school..you notice there is........

Blah Blah Blah M m. Mcgonnagall 19*somthing* 1971
Seeker
James
19**


Was M m. Mcgonnagall a seeker in 1971...or was she out of school then?? what do you think??

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 4:08 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

newt:
ah.. i see. lol.

Sirius-Ella:
jkr mentioned that mcgonagall is about 70 in the books. if the plaque in the mivie wasnt a mistake, then perhaps she had a relative who was in school at the same time as james was.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 4:16 PM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

Tatipotter - I think I heard that somewhere, thanks for pointing that out. I guess that closes the door on that little suspicion. Harry isn't the heir to Slytherin, as he'd have to be related to Voldemort to be so.

Sirius-Ella - It's not that I don't like it, it's that I don't base my theories on how the movies tell the story. About the McGonagall thing, I think someone mentioned that McGonagall was Hagrid's age, which would mean that she was in school in 1952. If the trophy is from the 1970's, then I doubt it is her, but it could very well be a relative of Professor McGonagall's.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 4:22 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

Tatipotter:
lol. i love jkr's sense of humor.. well then, that clears up a whole lot doesnt it? heh

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 4:24 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

Tatipotter:
im pretty sure that james, sirius, lupin and wormtail were in the same house. the evidence is not shown in the books but my theory is based from implications that can be derived from certain trends in the books. the thing is, james and sirius are the bestest of friends and this would mean that they would spend a lot of time together. it would be inconvenient if they were from different houses. in the books, not once have they mentioned inter house friendships that transcend the normal 'friend' relationship. best friends are usually made in the same house itself. lupin was a prefect and the logical house that he was in would be gryffindor as well. i am inclined to think that wormtail was in that house too though brave is not a merit that i would award him.. that snot rag. but i hope my theory was logical though.. comments?

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 4:35 PM EST

Heir of Slytherin

House: Slytherin
Points: 5499

Spazzingduck says:

I just finished reading Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix for the third time, and I have to say it is the best book ever. But I made some huge mistakes while reading it the first time, and I want to give some advice to Potter fanatics everywhere about reading book six. This is the first and most important: NEVER flip through to see what happens in the end. I did this with Phoenix and it ruined the book for me. As soon as I got home from Barnes & Noble at midnight, I started flipping through the book. And I found out that Sirius Black had died before I even read the first chapter. I am SO ashamed of myself. The second bit of advice is this: when you are in the middle of reading the book on the day it came out, do not let your parents drag you along to buy a new car. I was right to the point where Harry had his first detention with Umbridge, and I had to wait FIVE HOURS before I could read again. I never knew it took so long to buy a car. And one more random thing: RON AND HERMIONE, GET TOGETHER ALREADY!

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 4:44 PM EST