Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Page 14 of Quidditch through the ages says that Wright was a successful metal charmer, and he had many rolls of parchemtn he left behind on his death listing orders he recieved. (NOTE: It is NOW in the possission of a private collector.) WHO IS THE COLLECTOR? Is this the source of gold... is this also the lay-about job, making snitches that James had?

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 10:27 PM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

HGreenbacker8705 - The thing with the Fid--well, I won't try to spell it, but the secret keeping charm, is that, while people may know exactly where it is that someone is hiding, they can't see it. Voldemort probably knew that the Potters lived in Godric's Hollow, yet, as was said, he could search up and down Godric's Hollow for eternity and never find them without the secret keeper telling him where it was. This, of course, would apply to the Black house. Bellatrix knows it's there, but can't see it, its inhabitants, or get inside of it.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 10:33 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Newt, no mention of Bowman Wright on the Black tapestry... but really nice try.

I don't think Sirius and James are related though. I don't see James, as an only child, being related to any cousins... not sure why, instinct? I do think he is in the Gryffindor lineage. AND Bowman probably is too.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 10:39 PM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

Okay, okay, someone needs to do some more research for me. ::Laughs slightly evilly:: Anyway, does anyone remember what year Hogwarts was founded? (I'm not sure it's even mentioned.) And, what year does it say that the Golden Snidget was outlawed and Wright made the first Golden Snitch? I'm not getting at a really conclusive thing, but if Gryffindor helped make Hogwarts and Wright made the first Snitch at the same time, it's likely they're related, as the wizarding world wasn't expanded as much at the time (I don't think, because of Ron's statement that if wizards and witches hadn't started marrying Muggles, they'd be extinct). It's mostly the whole "Godric's Hollow" thing that makes me curious. Maybe Gryffindor used his wealth (that I assume he had) to start a small wizarding neighborhood, where he supplied homing to his family (and maybe friends).

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 10:46 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Ok, snitch...1398? There is no given date - it is derived... Hogwarts a history would have it... so references to its founding maybe in one of the references Hermione mentions.
Must re-read. This could take some time....

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 11:00 PM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

Okay, I've got to retire for the night anyway (I'll get that prefect badge tomorrow), so between now and when I get back, I'll go through to try and find it, too. 'Till then.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 11:02 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Who is the collector that has Wrights papers to make the snitch? DD?

HGreenbacker8705 - great questions about the way the charm works.. I wish my phone had it to block telemarketers. I get the idea that Bellatrix could know the location and go there, but not find the house... BUT be waiting outside to attack. Note the Order members ALWAYS ready for an attack out of the house... even the steps.

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 11:05 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

Also, IF a person or being was in the house or in on the secret, they could come and go... Kreatcher. He was forbidden to tell the secret, but he was in on the secret and could come and go...

speaking of.. I must go for tonight! All happy researching!

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 11:07 PM EST

Animagus

House: Gryffindor
Points: 19544

Sirius-Ella says:

O.k. i finally got my avatars working..I made them myself..I have others..but this one is this months :D...anyway I have a quick question...what is the name of the author the ultimate guide..or whatever? Well, I'm trying to find it so I can order it myself and buy it......Which one is the best...please tell me!!
-sirius-ella-

Posted Jul 19, 2003 at 11:58 PM EST

Animagus

House: Gryffindor
Points: 19544

Sirius-Ella says:

Guimauve:
We all hate that Sirius died..but everyone is saying that in J.k. Rowlins interveiw she had to go back and re-write the ending so it would be made sure that this character was for-sure going to die and for sure be dead...I know there is someway for Harry to talk to Sirius..but we won't get to see that until Year 6......Sorry Guimauve..
-sirius-ella-

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 12:52 AM EST

Muggle

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 57

Mrs. Norris says:

I had just finished 'The Red Scarf Girl' for school when I read OotP. What it's about is the Cultural Revolution in China, and I couldn't help but realize the similarities in the Cultural Revolution to what was happening at hogwarts! First they changed teachers-teachers that instilled the ideas that the government was completely right, that that teacher ALONE was good-because they were from the government. It's corruption in the young peoples' minds. In this case Umbridge was the corrupting teacher (well duh)

Anyway, once my mom is done reading OotP I plan to pick it up and read it again. It's a much darker book, and the ending is a little strange. I cried so hard when Sirius died. My boyfriend is convinced that he didn't die-but I think he did. The symbolism of 'The Veil' and 'Going through the Veil' is just too strong to death. I think it may be possible that he becomes a ghost, but we'll find out in book 6 (the whole rumor over finding out who becomes ghosts and why).

Anyway, I don't think this book was QUITE as good as the others, but I think what's going on is it's leading up to the 6th book, which explains the flat-not quite as exciting- areas in the book.

I also think Harry is a bratt in this book. Hermione and Ron had good reasons for not explaining things to him in their owls (which probably WERE being intercepted) and he had no right to yell at them. And he had no right to yell at Dumbledore (though I think most of that was just anger that Sirius had died) but throughout most of the book he's an annoying prick. I feel sorry for Hermione and Ron because they had to put up with him!

And for Neville's parents? I was surprised they were alive, and I pity poor Neville. I was excited to see his grandma for real-not just in another story by Neville.

Sirius will forever remain in my heart....

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 1:29 AM EST

Order of Merlin, 2nd Class

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1782

Juno Puddifoot says:

I have been worried about the damage Voldemort could do if Harry doesn't get some sense and learn occlumency properly myself.

LOL at Newt Scamander :O I think rather than apologise for errors in sentence structure, spelling, grammar or anything else, I will just stick with points of ellipsis ... and possibly stream of consciousness stuff.

The McGonagall as godmother point, she does indeed have a soft spot for Harry; next - do we know any female M characters of that age group? Might have married and changed name. I mean from the movies they KNOW how old Minerva is, so surely they would be unlikely to be thinking of it bein Minerva McG ... but whether its important?

Anyone have ideas on Fudge and where he's going> We know he places too much on the love of his office and purity of blood. I like that in GoF, when DD looks at Fudge after he put the demontor onto Barty before he could be questioned ... 'as though seeing him for the first time' I think. Surely this is a rather serious thing to do ... :)

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 4:46 AM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 109

Remus_lupin says:

Puddifoot I Dont think Voldermort will try to create impressions in Harry's mind and even if he does I think HArry will be much well prepared after what happened to Sirius Black.

And after the pain Voldermort experienced after possessing HArry I dont think he will possess HArry again, I think even more aware that HArry has some power he does not have.

Though it will help him to learn Occlumency so that other Dark wizards and Voldermort dont try to read his mind.

He might do much better now that DD will teach him instead of Snape. But Voldermort might well possess one of his friends like he tried with Harry and Harry will be great risk this time.

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 5:59 AM EST

Order of Merlin, 2nd Class

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1782

Juno Puddifoot says:

Hi Remus Lupin, that's true. I guess it bugged me so much throughout the book that I'm STILL worried about it:) I guess at very least that whole plot line (manipulating Harry in that way - through his friends) has sort of been covered so we shouldn't be seeing it again. Although Voldemort might not try to use Harry, he could possibly pick up information that he shouldn't be.

As far as where this book stands in favourites, I think it might be a close equal second, with GoF. PA is possibly still my favourite. I think.

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 6:15 AM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 109

Remus_lupin says:

Luna mentioned something about Hornedback... and Hermoine kept cutting her short thru out the book. Do Luna's Specisl drem characters really exist in the wizard world. I think Hermoine might have to eat her words this time and some of Luna's imaginary creatures might indeed exist. Might be her mothers experiment added some power into her so that she could see things normal wizards/witches dont and HArry too being given power by Voldermort might be the only other person who could. REmember the Veil.

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 6:23 AM EST

Order of Merlin, 2nd Class

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1782

Juno Puddifoot says:

WitchyWays, Harry has certainly got a cross to bear into book 6 hasn't he. I haven't thought about where book 5 and Sirius' death would lead him. I can't really imagine him running away, he seems a little too inclined to face up to the nasty stuff, I mean even those detentions with Umbridge.

That is a very cool cover.

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 6:24 AM EST

Order of Merlin, 2nd Class

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1782

Juno Puddifoot says:

Remus Lupin ... do you mean the Bibbering Humdinger and the Crumple horned snorkack ... not to mentione heliopaths ... do you realise that I did not have to check the book for this??? Now I am seriously concerned, if all this stuff is in my head, what's getting lost?!

Actually I think that's a good point. At very least as far as Luna Lovegood, Herione is learnng to respect other people's opinions/beliefs by the end of OotP.

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 6:38 AM EST

Metamorphmagus

House: Gryffindor
Points: 37939

tonks black says:

someone mentioned this, but i thought about where it could lead and i dont really wanna go find what board it was on..since harry and voldemort have the same wand, they cant really hurt eachother can they?and the power in the DoM was something DD said was stronger than anything. im not sure if he said that was what would defeat voldemort, but i think it is something harry will have to get past and then use it to kill voldemort. it could be like..all the people in the veil have the evil inside of them released and if harry can make the evil turn into good it will like attack voldemort and kill him with harry leading the way. i know its crazy..but hey, im crazy to.

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 9:01 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 771

Dragan Glas says:

SueB
I checked with my contacts in France - they confirm that Voldemort means "Death flight".

Regarding Remus/James: this does not make sense to me.

Consider:
When did this Switching Spell occur - before or after the Fidelius Charm? Who was present?

Even more important; who was present when the Fidelius Charm was performed?

Sirius *is* dead. Though I believe that Harry may talk with him through the veiled arch in book 6 and/or 7.

The sealed room in MoM may be the place where Harry can go and Voldemort can't - where Harry can gain something (more of that power he already has within him?) to defeat Voldemort

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 9:16 AM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

Dragan Glas - The Fidelius Charm would've had to be done after the Switching Spell if James is in Lupin's body right now.

However, I now have good reason to believe that this theory is incorrect: the Marauder's Map. I'm going to skim through the third book and try to see if Harry ever mentions looking at the Map for Lupin, or if he ever just sees 'Remus Lupin' on the map. Certainly if an Animagus appears as themselves on the map, and if Polyjuice Potion doesn't fool the map, then neither would a Switching Spell. Then again, have the books ever discussed such a spell? Maybe it's so powerful that it can confuse anyone and anything. If it can't, though, I think that Harry would be surprised if he looked down at who was in the school at the time and saw...

James Potter.

(Note how I did the whole surpising, one-item paragraph like Rowling does sometimes to end chapters with a note of surprise.)

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 9:23 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 771

Dragan Glas says:

Newt
That would mean that Remus would be living with Lily as husband and wife. Without James knowing where they were to help protect his family!

For how long would that have been acceptable to James and Lily? Given that the war had been going on for some time with no end in sight, I don't believe that they would have accepted this state of affairs.

This is why I don't believe it.

Further, regarding the Fidelius Charm - those present would know that Sirius was innocent of the crime for which he's sent to Azkaban.

Dumbledore, at least, could have proven - without any doubt - that Sirius was innocent.

Why didn't he?

I think this reveals a logical hole in JKR's story.

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 9:43 AM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

Dragan Glas - My understanding was that Sirius was the Secret Keeper, but only for a short time. I believe Dumbledore was present when Sirius was made the Secret Keeper, but then, out of the (presumed) knowledge that Voldemort would never go after Pettigrew to get to the Potters, there was a very secret switch between Sirius and Peter. It must have been tough magic to do something like that, especially at their age (which I believe wasn't all that old, I'd guess around 30), but for heaven's sake, Harry's already passed the age when the three of them became Animagi! (Not in years, he's still the same there until July 31, but in Hogwarts grade level.)

This was my interpretation.

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 9:53 AM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

I just had an epiphany reading the 2376 range of posts... About Harry's Godmother... why she isn't mentioned.

I bet it is Alice Longbottom. Think about it. She is Lily's age, probably her good friend, they were in the order together... boys about the same age. I bet it is her... she is not mentioned, because she has lost her mind and in the hospital. I do think Neville's plant may cure his parents... THEN Harry will have a gaodmother!

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 10:23 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 771

Dragan Glas says:

Newt, I've re-checked PoA.

On page 268 (UK paperback edition) Sirius says, in the Shrieking Shack, that he convinced James and Lily "at the last moment" to make Peter their Secret Keeper.

This means that Sirius was never the Secret Keeper.

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 10:51 AM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 166

SueB says:

I think Harry has every right to be furious with Dumbledore

"..you are not nearly as angry with me as you ought to be. If you are to attack me, as I know you are close to doing, I would like to have thoroughly earned it." pg 825

Dumbledore then goes on to explain about Sirius and how he's kept the knowledge of the prophesy from Harry. Yes, these are things to be angry about but the bigger picture is even worse.

Dumbledore has manipulated Harry's life, his entire existence from the get-go. Harry is a pawn in the game (up to this point) and has pretty much gone where DD has sent him. This is not to say that I think DD is evil, but he is ruthless in his protection of the wizarding world, even if he abuses Harry in the process:

his flaw was "I cared about you too much" DD, pg 838.

Choices (and it's all about that....JKR's Catholocism drives free will deep into her writing) DD has made:

- He protected Harry not Neville with the FC. We're both parents warned or only Harry's. Did the Longbottoms try something else? By placing Harry in hiding, did it lead Voldemort to think that DD thought Harry was the one?? Evil plot twist there. By protecting Harry, his parents may have made him the target.

- He takes Harry to Petunia after the attack. Clearly he threatened her and she agreed with the "pact" out of coercion. "REMEMBER MY LAST". More than likely he somehow threatened Dudley due to the blood connection (i.e. if she wanted to protect Dudley, she had to protect Harry). Still, I think DD's true decision to control Harry's life came after the attack. He said "And so I made my decision." pg 835. Yes, he talks about the ancient magic but he also talks about the path he put Harry on.

He then subjected Harry to 11 hard years of cruelty while in hiding. Clearly he knew what was going on (from Mrs Figg at the least). He said: "You were not a pampered little prince, but as normal a boy s I could have hoped for under the circumstances. Thus far, my plan was working well." pg 837. Okay. Again he admits it is all his plan. Did he allow the abuse of Harry to go on so that he would be less arrogant than his father? Did he do this so Harry would develop empathy for those who are treated poorly (elves, centaurs, goblins, giants...)? He COULD have made his life easier. He COULD have told Petunia to knock it off (as the Order friends did at the end of Book 5). DD let it happen. This was not neglect on his part. Ouch. If I was Harry, I'd have a hard time thanking DD for 11 years of mistreatment.

At school in year 1, Harry speculates on pg 302 of SS that DD steered Harry to save the stone: "I dont think it was an accident he let me find out how the mirror worked. It's almost like he thought I had the right to face Voldemort if I could...". Yikes. When I first read this so many years ago, I thought that it was far-fetched that DD would put Harry in such danger. Clearly I was wrong. What was the point of that? "You rose magnificently to the challenge that faced you" OOTP, pg 837. A test? Maybe DD's not so nice. I agree with Hagrid, he could have died. Was he confirming Harry was "the one" before continuing?

Well. This tome is getting long. Needless to say, I think a continued dialog along this path is warranted. In short, I think in every book, DD is preparing Harry for the final battle in his own way. He does so even though Harry suffers horribly for it. I also think DD is not going to be able to control the outcome and this pains him.

Again, I don't think Dumbledore is evil. "The world is not made up of good people and Death Eaters". I think he is ruthless in his pursuit of protection of the Wizarding world and Harry, unfortunately, is going to suffer until he is successful.

SueB

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 10:55 AM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

IF James had swtiched with Lupin for added security, then it fits that he wouldn't know...

Even though HE trusted Sirius, because of his family background, Lily may have felt an added precaution was necessary.

Also, the Lupin as James living with Lily... the could have switched and done the charm the night it happened as it was Halloween... they may have had a tip.

It is still possible.

Posted Jul 20, 2003 at 10:56 AM EST