Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

its great to have so many pple enjoying the book and discussing it!! im from singapore by the way and its wonderful to be able to talk with pple who arent from the asian region..

i re ead the part about sirius getting hit by the spell by bellatrix. the first jet of light was RED BUT he managed to duck. the second one hit him squarely in the chest BUT no color was mentioned. so it cld be the avarda kedavra for all we know.
i read some of ur postings on how he died and that he died not from the spell itself but from falling thru the acrhway and im still hesitant to believe it. although no concrete explanation ahs been given surrounding the mystery of the archway, im still not inclined to believe that anyone (living) who walks thru it would die. jus my thought tho..
also the thing abt the patronus. i believe that in PoA lupin taught harry in a practical way. tt is to say that he had a bogart tt turned into a dementor upon seeing harry. i think its pretty obvious that itll be harder to repel a dementor in a situation with dementors as opposed to merely conjuring up the patronus itself without them.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 5:47 AM EST

Order of Merlin, 2nd Class

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1660

siriusgyal says:

i think Harry had a right to angry because look at all the thing's he's lost everything he loved/ cared about. His parents, Cedric and now sirius he can't take it anymore and i would do exactly the same thing he did.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 6:26 AM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 306

Hedwig1974 says:

Erdodelbmud --

I seriously doubt that they'll forbid Draco from returning to Hogwarts the next year...after all, can't blame children for the sins of their fathers, or however that saying goes :)

Plus, it would really suck not having that hateful dynamic happening between Draco and Harry...always fun to read! :)

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 9:49 AM EST

Auror

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2374

TrueBluePotterFan says:

happygolucky2
Not much hummor? That's what Fred, George, and Lee Jordon were for. I died laughing when Lee told Umbridge that she could not tell fred and george to stop playing exploding snap because it was not related to the subject of DADA. Also the way the teachers treated her. The way that Flitwick made her come to get of the fireworks and then said he could do it but did not know if he was allowed. Many more examples exist throughout the book. I loved them. My kind of humor.
Oh I can't finish this post without mentioning my favorite, Ron making the clomping noises in the hospital wing.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 11:27 AM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 306

Hedwig1974 says:

You know, something else has been bugging me...and I don't believe I've heard anybody mention much about it. Why all the attention focused on the centaurs and their anti- "association with humans" thing? I mean, wow. Alot of pages devoted to that, all things considered. Obviously, part of that was setup for Hermione taking Umbridge out to them...but still...anyone else wondering about that?

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 11:50 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

MoonyLupin -- I think you have a huge point here. What if Sirius gets depicted in a painting? It does seem that the paintings interact with people. When the Fat Lady's portrait was stabbed in PoA, she did have to flee...

I would suspect that the characters in the paintings have the same attitudes as the characters they represent, but that they are not the REAL characters. I wonder how all of that works.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 12:45 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

MoonyLupin -- another good question, why weren't the Weasleys in the original Order? Wonder if we'll ever find out.

Hedwig1974 -- I think the attention devoted to the centaurs here exists for the same reason that so much attention is devoted to S.P.E.W. throughout the later books, especially in GoF. Then look to the Fountain of Magical Brethren in the Ministry's Atrium and consider Dumbledore's comments. He said that the statue depicted a lie. He realizes that wizards must stop claiming superiority. (Is this opinion perhaps one of the reasons why he went to the centaurs and came out unscathed with Umbridge?)

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 12:51 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 468

Charlie'sMum says:

Erodelbmud mentions Fred and George rocking the book. Totally agree! Loved their escape from the school. I always liked them - everytime I hear that there is a death, I live in fear that it would be one of them!
Also - I think there was plenty of humour in the book. It was subtle humour, but there, nonetheless.
I have a question to pose to everyone - I read a review of OOP (and grown-up types who obviously don't 'get' the books should not try to review them) and the reviewer said you could tell that JKR was tired of Quiddich since it's barely seen in the book. What do you all think? Personally I think she just knows when NOT to over do things, and the focus of this story was less on Harry's Hogwarts exploits and more on outside things, and getting him banned was just a good way to move away from that for awhile. Also, us not 'seeing' Ron's win made it that much more exciting and nice when Harry and Herimone suddenly realise that it isn't Slytherin singing but Gryffindors carrying Ron triumphantly.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 1:34 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

CarolAlutius, I agree on the Quidditch stuff -- I don't think JKR is tired of Quidditch either. My guess is she saw how thick the book was going to be and decided it was OK to cut some Quidditch out. In addition, it may be getting harder to come up with a variety of action seens -- note how no two games of Quidditch ever seem to be the same?

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 1:59 PM EST

Jahboh says:

Hm... if anyone reads this... I do have my chapters 6-10 analysis posted on my site. Go to: www.geocities.com/jahboh and click on the blue flame...

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 2:13 PM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 388

Magellan says:

A note on the number 12: The number 12 has traditionally been considered by many as a "holy" number, i.e., the 12 tribes of Israel.

The number 3 is also of importance in the series. There are three groups (perhaps more) of three close friends: Harry, Ron and Hermione; Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle; and James, Sirius and Remus. The number 3, like the number 12, is also a "holy" number, i.e., the Trinity in the Christian religion.

The number 7 is also of importance in the series, i.e., the 7 Weasley children. Like 12 and 3, the number 3 is also considered a "holy" number in the Christian religion, i.e., the seven seals in the book of Revelations.

I recently discovered that there has been at least one book written regarding the religious nuances present in the Harry Potter series, and, after reading the Time article from last week, there are apparently several more or less religious themes which can be drawn out of the Harry Potter series. Would be an interesting read for those who are similarly interested.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 2:22 PM EST

Jahboh says:

I did get the Chapters 6-10 posted on my book 5 analysis. To see them, go to: www.geocities.com/jahboh

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 2:35 PM EST

George Can'tStandya says:

Korasei: Excellent catch about Ron Weasley, the seer. I vaguely recall some of his other "fake" predictions being grounded in some truth. Also, Neville and Harry, and the prophecy, as Silversmoke(I believe) has stated it is possible that Malfoy could be in the lump as well. The definition of "mark" is key here.

As I have stated before both Hermione and Harry could have just as easily been put in other houses. It is looking probable that all of teh students could have been put in different houses. They are young children, and it seems odd that the sorting hat would have such a firm grasp on their destinies as yet unwritten. Prophecy is such a tricky thing. The houses could serve as false constructs, like the lines between nations. Do you really know when you have crossed a border and entered a different state or nation? As is pointed out after Wormtail was outed, NOT ALL bad wizards came from Slytherin, nor are all Slytherin bad. Draco has inexcusable conduct in his use, but so did Griffindor extrordinaire James Potter. In the end they will all have to as the saying goes "hang together or hang seperately".

One last question, sorry this is getting long, in Dumbledore's office we see the snake split. Is it possible that there is more than one prophesied one, and the scar is one big fat red herring?

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 2:52 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 268

Tadhgain says:

I have to say that I think the book was very very good. I too was a little aggrivated that Harry had not thought to use the mirror to try contacting Sirius instead of Umbridge's fireplace. I can't help but wonder what the power that Harry has that Voldemort doesn't that concerns that room at the Ministry. I was kinda hoping Harry would ask Dumbledore, but I guess he got side tracked. I'd read on other sites about the next book being Harry Potter and the Green Flame Torch, or something like that. Could the power that he has be that torch? Is that why it's so important that he has his mother's GREEN eyes? Anyone have thoughts on that?

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 2:58 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

George, here's my guess on the snake splitting. I think that the splitting, combined with Dumbledore's muttering, was to be a hint that Harry himself didn't bite Mr. Weasley. Rather, when Voldemort transferred his Parseltongue and certain other powers to Harry, it wasn't really a gift of power, but instead a merging of their minds -- a merging that has taken years for both to figure out. And Voldemort is on the uptake -- he figured it out first and took advantage of it to give Harry rather clear directions on how to find the Prophecy. So, Voldemort and Harry are, in a sense, one person, but are obviously in two different places at the same time. They can share their thoughts and potentially can influence each other.

Thoughts?

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 2:58 PM EST

Prefect

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 361

LaDonna says:

Erodelbmud,I have a guess why Neville, Ginny and Luna were the other three to go into the Ministry of Magic.
1) Neville is deeply connected to the prophecy even though he doesn't know his situation and Harry's could have been switched. It also gives him a chance to prove himself more.

2) Ginny is, it could be argued, the only other student to survive a direct attack from Voldemort (aka Tom Riddle) and live. I think somehow maybe some of Riddle's powers transferred to her too in the Chamber (pg. 310 in chamber U.S. edition. "Powerful enough to start feeding Miss Weasley a few of my secrets, to start pouring a little of my soul back into her . . ."

3)Luna -- so people think she's crazy. Some people thought Einstein was mad too. Maybe some of the odd stuff she knows or believes in is actually true. It could help all of them.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 2:59 PM EST

Murph says:

Just a quick point I don't think I've heard anyone pick up on yet.

Do you remember that Harry has always had the feeling that Snape could read minds! Well now we know he can through Leglimancy.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 3:05 PM EST

Murph says:

Another interesting piece from the book is the Snape scene with James Potter.

Was there something there with Snape and Lilly (such as strong feeling for Lilly from Snape?)I've never heard Snape once mention anything bad about her. This could be another source of anger from Snape towards James Potter.

Also we still don't know how Dumbledore knows Snape truly came over from the dark side. I think this will be important in the next book.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 3:10 PM EST

Murph says:

Regarding Draco.

I definitely think he will be allowed back in school(and remain prefect). I would go against everything Dumbledore beleives in not to!

Also I think Draco will come over to the good side in the end -- similair to Snape. If you remember in the first book Dumbledore describes Snape and James Potters relationship as being similair to Harry and Draco's. It seems that to ultimately prevail there must be some form of unity between houses and races -- That seems to be the underlying message in this book.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 3:17 PM EST

Prefect

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 361

LaDonna says:

I hope we see Fred and George's shop in book 6. I wonder if they need patents.

O.K. why doesn't Draco insult Ginny?
He has a perfectly fine time with Ron, but he never insults her. The insults in Chamber are more about Harry when he says them "Potter, you've got yourself a girlfriend" and "I don't think Potter like your valentine much."
I'm sure he could have changed the words to "Weasley is our King" to include her somehow and when he laughs after everyone was caught by that god awful woman, he laughs so he's flattering her (I think flattering laughs are real fake) when she said the school will soon be Weasley free. This just irritates me. I know he must insult her somewhere. My friend argues with me and says it points to Malfoy being redeemed by his love of Ginny, like Snape will be redeemed later on. I think they're both prats still though.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 3:19 PM EST

Prefect

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 361

LaDonna says:

Luna Lovegood: The comment about Sirius being capable of murder at 16 is referring to when he tricked Snape into going to the Shrieking Shack when Lupin was chaning into a werewolf.
If James and Lily didn't start dating until their 7th year there would be no way they had Harry at age 16.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 3:31 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Sano Orbis, yes, I was shocked that Cho didn't get mad at Harry. I guess the end result was still the same, though.

On LaDonna's point... Even if Draco likes Ginny, are there good odds that Ginny would come to like Draco after how he treats her family and friends? Draco is always putting down (possibly) Ginny's best friend, Hermione.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 3:41 PM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 388

Magellan says:

MoonyLupin's point is well taken on the mystery regarding the number to dial in the telephone booth to connect you to the Ministry of Magic. Following the sequence, 6 2 4 4 2, (and I assume those numbers are correct), then there may be some importance that the numbers are in reverse order, with the last number, 6, missing. Hmmm . . .

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 3:44 PM EST

George Can'tStandya says:

Muggle Wizard: I see your point, and that is probably correct, given that Dumbledore, said that Harry was in fact the subject of teh prophecy. Only the fact that he was saying this, in the middle of chronicling his mistakes makes me doubt it slightly. I just can't shake the feeling that Harry and Neville, both suffer, one does so famously, the other unnoticed, both are possible keys to defeating teh dark Lord, yet one is constantly shown to be a champion and powerful wizard, while the other is shown to be incompetent and weak. Is dumbledore hiding soemthing in plain sight? I don't know?

Murph: As for Snape and Lily, Snape does refer to her as a mudblood, and she resorts to calling him Snivellus, Unless I misread.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 3:45 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 468

Charlie'sMum says:

Someone made a good point about Snape and Lilly. Personally I would not be at all surprised to find that Snape was actually in love with Lilly. I don't necessarily think that she loved him, but she was probably one of the few people to be kind to him. She's obviously a kind woman. She's probably the reason James stopped being such a 'burke'.
Oh - and I loved the idea that Ginny, too, has some of Voldemort's power. cool idea!

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 4:30 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

Just out of curiosity . . does anyone have any theories regarding the "Dudley Demented" chapter? I wonder what type of horrible memories Dudley could have remembered. I think maybe the experience will alleviate the hatred (however little) between Harry and Dudley. Even Petunia seemed to be able to relate to Harry for once.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 4:37 PM EST