Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

Just out of curiosity . . does anyone have any theories regarding the "Dudley Demented" chapter? I wonder what type of horrible memories Dudley could have remembered. I think maybe the experience will alleviate the hatred (however little) between Harry and Dudley. Even Petunia seemed to be able to relate to Harry for once.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 4:37 PM EST

Marauder

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3954

jade says:

that is a very good point snape can read minds.i can't wait to see more of fred and george i thought there was was quite alot of humour in this book but it was very subtle.i think that luna is a very good character i liked her alot and am sure that she is going to play a bigger role in the next 2 books.another thing that is most probably going to be very important i feel is that tonks is a metamorphmagus can change into things.i also can't wait for a confrontation between moony and wormtail i know remus will be very angry and most probably can't wait to kill him like he demonstrated in poa. love this book best book i have read. jk going in the completly right direction.can't wait until the 6th book.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 4:55 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

An interesting note...in JKR's interview before her reading at the Royal Albert, she said "don't think Snape is all THAT good" or something to the effect. She also said that the reason Dumbledore never makes Snape DADA prof even tho it's so hard to find those profs is that, while DD trusts Snape to an extent, he doesn't want to put Snape in any position that might possibly "tempt" him to do something evil.

About the Snape/Lily thing...I think Snape didn't especially like Lily standing up for him because he didn't want to feel endebted to a "mudblood" for anything...he preferred to think of "mudbloods" as dirt. I'm sure Draco would rather die than have Hermione stand up for him, for example, because that would sort of put him on the same side as a mudblood (oh, God forbid LOL).

Sometimes in the past I have been a little frustrated at (my fav!) Hermione's determination to promote the S.P.E.W. thing, but I am thinking her eventual success will be a key part in one or both of the next books. Any possible ideas on this? I think there is a clue in the four statues...I mean, besides the witch and wizard were two creatures (cenataur and house elf) that don't necessarily align themselves with wizard ideas. Maybe when wizard forces persuade the cenataurs to be on their side and the house elves are free to think for themselves, the Order will have a strong army?

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 6:34 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

Oh, also I think Grawp will play a part in book 6 and/or 7 because I think Voldie will call upon the giants as allies (why Dumbledore sent Hagrid to get to them first but remember the death eaters became friends with the Giant leader?) and maybe Grawp will...I don't know exactly, but I just have a feeling he'll be in there somewhere.

And how could I forget? JKR answered our thestral question in her interview!!!!!!!!! She said that she had the idea of the thestrals in book 4 but didn't want him to suddenly see these new creatures right at the end of the book and then end the book with no explanation of what they were. So she said (laughing) that to get around this she decided that not only do you have to see someone die but the comprehension of it has to sink into your brain. Harry didn't see them at the end of book 4 because he was still in shock from Cedric's death and he, as a baby, didn't comprehend his parents' deathes. FINALLY we got this answered!

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 6:40 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

pheonixashes, I was wondering the same thing. I don't think you need to have both godmothers and fathers. I personally have a godfather but no godmother, so there you are :-)

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 6:42 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

I don't think Harry has a godmother. Though if he did, I think Michelou's idea of it being Prof. McGonagall is a good one. Remember she didn't want Harry to be left with the Dursleys in SS/PS because she'd been watching them ("the worst sort of muggles..." and she was very concerned for baby Harry's welfare. She was the only other Prof. besides Dumbledore to leave baby Harry with the Dursley's. Hmmm...

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 9:43 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

to clarify my last post, she and Dumbledore were the two leaving baby Harry with the Dursleys. Of course DD, but why McGonagall? She seems to really care about Harry throughout the books, even tho she's stern and everything.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 9:45 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 11

Xeneri says:

Right - finished the book very very early this morning. Am bleary eyed, so I may not be making sense, but here are my first impressions:

Harry - He hit the "teen angry angst" phase! Mind you, he's had harder time of it then most angry teens... I was getting fed up with him being angry all the time, but at the same time, it fit perfectly with his storyline and age. Am continually impressed at JK's ability to have her characters age properly. Makes me think he will be quite the auror. That is, if JK doesn't kill him off in Book 7 as she sometimes alludes to (see her recent Albert Hall reading for most recent refernce.

Ron - Don't send me angry posts because I *do* like Ron -- but honestly, he seems clueless much of the time. But I suppose that's what makes him the perfect sidekick for Harry. Not everyone can be superheros. And at least he got a chance to shine as "King" for a day. Was a bit disapointed that he and Hermione haven't progressed beyond the row stage... but ah well. There's always Books 6 & 7 for that.

Hermione - Still my favorate character (next to Hedwig that is) She's so spot on all the time - love that about her. Especially pleased with the bit where she says the Sorting Hat considered putting her in Ravenclaw at first. I always thought she had all the Ravenclaw requirements. Also liked that her patronus is an otter. In both the AOL chat and Scholastic interview, Rowling said that if she were an Animagus, she'd like to turn into an otter, because it's her favorite animal. ;)

Cho - rather a disapointment as I expected her to be -- well, cooler. But I still think Harry is better off with Ginny.

Ginny - I was very pleased with her inthis book. She seems to have finally come into her own. Especially loved the bit where she tells Harry off for not thinking to ask her what it felt like to be possessed by Voldemort. And really looking forward to her relationship growing with Harry.

The Weasely Twins - can't think of a better exit for them! Perfect, just perfect. Tho I'll miss their antics at Hogwarts...

Percy - Not that Percy was a favorate of mine but was still alarmed at his leaving the family. Is it me, or does anyone else think he is being controlled? Hmmm.... maybe not. He's not really important enough to be controlled, is he? Still.... very odd behaviour from him.

Luna Lovegood - I felt for her. She was a refreshing treat - the wacky oddball who sees castles in the air.
The Order - Ah, the good guys! Kingsley (very Laurence Fishburn if you ask me), Mundungas - whose fitting name relates to some kind of tobacco I believe, and Tonks! Oh how can you not like a girl named Tonks? :) Odd tho, such a point was made that Tonks was a Metamorphmagus I was surprised that more wasn't made of it. I half expected her to have impersonated some major character.... but I suppose this is a setup for future books.

Sirius, Lupin & James - Such a treat to see them when they were Harry's age. Teen Lupin & Sirius didn't surprise me a bit.... but James did, as I imagined JK intended. Teen James as a bully rather turned me off him. Actually felt sorry for Snape. Speaking of which...

Snape - Yes I know he's horrid, but I keep hoping he and Harry will bond somehow. After all, Dumbledore trusts Snape and in turn Snape is extremely loyal to D. Had hoped this would happen with the Occlumancy lessions and especially after Harry spied with the pensieve. What I really want to know is -- why did Snape leave the Death Eaters? Something must have happened to make him turn to D in the first place, so he can't be all bad. Can he?
Neville - ever since Book 1, Neville has been one of my favorate characters. Delighted to see that he finally got to be more of an active part in Harry's team. I was scared he was the one slated to die... but now I really think he has the makings to great wizard. Maybe not "powerful" in the conventional sense, but great nonetheless. Something about Neville - apart from him being the other potential "chosen" Dumbledore refers to in the prophesy -- makes me think he will have a pivital role in the last 2 books. At least, I hope so!

This was much longer than I intended it to be... I must be going thru end of bood withdrawal!

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 4:13 AM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 468

Charlie'sMum says:

lorna_of_books - interesting point about Mark Evans. That would be a totally cool thing. But I would think that family would have been mentioned before - The Dursleys don't seem to have other relatives other than Aunt Marge - I would think that The Evanses would have been mentioned in book one when they were trying to decide who Harry could go with when they were going to the zoo. But you're right - JKR tends to slip things in like that and they turn up later.
Erodelbmud - somone else posted the theroy about Ginny and powers - its not in the book. Just a neat idea.
Lastly, I've been thinking about this (really should get a life) and I'm thinking that Harry really needs to learn compassion and forgiveness in order to defeat Lord V. Those are two traits that LV does NOT have at all, and they are the two things that I personally think Harry needs to cultivate. (not his fault, he wasn't raised with compassion, so its not something he is used to ) Since it was mentioned more than once, he is going to have to forgive Draco and the Slytherins as well as Snape and the Dursleys.
Oh - and I'm glad I'm not the only one who REALLY wants to know what it is that Dudley saw when the dementors were around. I'm thinking he might not be quite so nasty in the future.

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 8:56 AM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 306

Hedwig1974 says:

You know...I just thought of something, but I don't have my book here at work to verify this. The only two people to handle the prophecy directly were Harry and Neville...both of whom were "potentials" that the prophecy was about.

Also, does anyone have any idea about what all the letters that were written on the prophecy were for? I was trying to think of what they could stand for while reading, but I became too frustrated. Of course, I'm not very bright..I was rereading the 1st book last evening, and I just realized that the wording on the Mirror of Erised said "I show not your face but your hearts desire". Duh. Me feel stupid now. :)

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 9:56 AM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 451

Pure-HP says:

I find it really hard to read what people have to say about the death because I am still not over it. I haven't accepted it because we have not seen a body and I have a very strong feeling that Bellatrix hit Sirius with the stunning spell because the light that issued from her wand was red. The Killing curse light is green as we all know.
We also do not know what is behind the veil do we? Harry heard voices behind it, for all we know, they might just be trapped. Those unfortunate people that fall beyond it. I will not believe until it's explained. I can't accept it.

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 10:32 AM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

Okay, I had an interesting thought about the importance of the whole S.P.E.W. house elf issue. First of all, even though Dobby is a nut case to the other elves, I think he just hadn't been as brainwashed as the others. Having said that, remember what he said in CoS (emphasization mine) "Dobby rememembers what it was like BEFORE Harry Potter triumphed over he-who-must-not-be-named. House elves WERE TREATED LIKE VERMIN THEN." Obviously Voldie in power has something to do with the living standards of house elves. Therefore, if the house elves were freed from enslavement, they would think for themselves and join the Order's army against Voldie. Goodness I am starting to sound like Hermione with S.P.E.W...good grief.

I was rereading the book and in the fountain there are three creatures besides the witch and wizard. The house elf and cenataur were mentioned before but there was also a goblin. The goblins hadn't joined a side yet; I think it was Bill that said the goblins hadn't joined Volde yet but were still not willing to side with the wizards, especially after Bagman didn't pay them the gold they were owed from the Quidditch match [in GoF]. KEY ISSUE: when the wizards can join with the cenataurs, goblins, and house elves to fight against Voldemort, they will prevail! Normally (as said before) cenataurs and goblins distrust wizards so this is part of the unity thing.

One more thing: I know I am displaying my ignorance here, but what does the word "wotcher" mean? as in "Wotcher, Harry"? Tonks says it twice and I feel like an idiot. Please help me out and clue me in :-)

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 1:45 PM EST

Prefect

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 361

LaDonna says:

I think Dudley sees Hagrid pointing his umbrella at him when he sees the dementors.

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 1:55 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

im not too sure abt the numbers thing actually 62442 that one of u posted saying that the numbers repeated itself or smth like that. i think the best and most obvious explanation for that is that u sld look at ur handphones. the numbers spell out MAGIC actually. thought u guys might have missed it. was real surprised cos i didnt think jkr wld have infused modern day technology in her books.. real real cool..
and abt mark evans possibly being harry's cousin and perhaps a wizard at that. not possible as well i think as the ministry of magic keeps records of babies with magical blood in them. cornelius fudge himself said during the hearing that harry was the only wizard for miles ard..

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 2:07 PM EST

Marauder

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3954

jade says:

i just love this book thwere still so much to find out i just love it

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 2:29 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

eclektic...you are brilliant! I would have never thought about looking at the phone numbers/letters!

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 3:30 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Hedwig1974 -- the letters on the prophecy are the initials of Trelawney and Dumbledore.

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 4:00 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

jeez, this is getting long, it needs to be a eral message board...

ok, i think that Xerni made an excellent point with... well... erm... everything was excellent!!!

i am SO GLAD that the thing about the thestrals was finally answered. i have this feeling that by the end of book 7, hermionie and ron will be able to see them too, and that's not good. but i want to know, who was that other slytherin that was able to see them? whoever it was, i have a feeling there'll be more about him...

and Carol said that harry needs to learn compassion and forgivenss in order to defeat Voldy, and she's right. harry seems to have a really hard time with those two emotions. he also needs to find out voldy's other faults, and work on those.

like love--voldy does not love. but then love for sirius only made him more vulnerable. i also read somewhere that "when a woman loves a man, it weakens her." now, this was in some book in the midevil times, so it's sterotyped. but it's true for men, too. when you love someone, you are more vulnerable because you will sacrifice other things to rescue them, or do things for them... and so on. but is there a way that you can love someone, a way that makes neither of you vulnerable? i'm doubtful about that. but if there is a way, harry needs to love someone and to learn how to do it...

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 4:02 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

strawbeez -- I sure hope it's not this simple.

If the big thing that Harry has, and Voldemort doesn't, is love, then the end of the book is rather predictable. Out of love for his friends (and he is getting more and more friends), Harry could very likely sacrifice himself (see 'Phoenix' analysis 2, owlpost's message of 1:29 PM EST today). Out of this love, Harry dies but it is this same love that kills Voldemort. hmmm... doesn't quite seem right, but then.... Well, I dunno.....

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 4:20 PM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 388

Magellan says:

RE The splitting snakes referred to by Muggle Wizard: It seems to me to refer to whether Voldemort has yet realized that Harry is "tuned in" to him. Since the snakes divided, that would indicate that Voldemort had not yet realized Harry's ability to see what Voldemort sees. Shortly afterward, Dumbledore orders Snape to teach Harry Occlumency.

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 4:45 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

lorna_of_books that's a really good observation about Mark Evans! It very well might play a bigger role in the next book considering JK likes to foreshadow a lot. Also, this is totally irrelevant, but I was watching the movie Poltergeist the other day and I thought--wouldn't Velda Rubenstein (you know the actress with the high-pitched voice)make a good Professor Umbridge in the 5th movie?

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 5:58 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

strawbeez girl...very good point about love making people vulnerable. In fact, JKR said in her Royal Albert interview that Lupin's weak point is that since most people are mean to him, he trusts those people who seem friendly towards him...he trusts them too much and "cuts them too much slack", in JKR's words. Not quite the same thing but it made me remember. Could be a hint for book 6.

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 6:37 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 286

FootBall73Chic says:

This book was so great. There are so many things to be said it would take forever to say them all.

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 6:47 PM EST

Bela says:

This is my 1st time posting & I haven't finished reading all the comments, so sorry if I repeat something someone else said. But I wanted to make a few comments.

About the question as to why Harry could only see the thestrals when he returned to school this year and not before. I'm thinking because he didn't actually see his parents die. And also before Quirrell died, remember he had been existing on unicorn blood for Voldemort and that was supposed to put him in a "half life" state where he was neither living or dead so maybe this is why. ?

I really loved the fact that Ron was given opportunity to play on quidditch team w/o Harry or his brothers there. Everyone knew all along that Ron's only problem was lack of confidence and with them off the team, he felt less pressure cause everyone thought they were doomed anyway. I think there is going to be a big turn around in Ron from now on out because of it, and won't be surprised if he ends up being team captain before it's over.

Neville -- I'm expecting big things from Neville too. He wasn't put into Gryffindor for nothing and he has a large personal investment in this. We saw a big change in his personality in book 5.

Snape -- I came away from this book with him being one of my favorite characters. I loved the insight into his life. I think it must take a strong character to be a Death Eater and have strength to turn away from it. Dumbledore does not trust him w/o very good reason. I thought he would be the one to die in bk 5, after proving himself a good person. I still think it might happen. I think when he and Harry both saw into each other's mind & their bad childhood memories it was very important.

I think Percy is gone. I don't see him apologizing and don't think he has ability to admit he was wrong. I don't expect good things there. This may be an issue that Ron has to end up handling himself.

I'm very curious to hear more about Lily/Petunia. I think there are some big things left unsaid here.

I think Sirius may come reappear in future as a character. There just was not enough discussion about that veil and no one even asked much about what it exactly was. It will come back into play I'm sure, somehow tied with Luna.

I'm really thinking that neither Harry or Voldemort will live in last book. I really believe that Harry will somehow end up making ultimate sacrifice and give up his life and that will be how he defeats him. Then that curtain may have something to do with this also, if it is a doorway between life and death. I also think the part where Harry was able to get into Snape's mind was very important and he is eventually going to be able to turn this power on Voldemort due to scar, maybe in last book.

Sorry for such a long first post!

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 7:08 PM EST

cfsdimples says:

Errors I found:

1) How did Harry get the Map back from Moody/Crouch? (Well, everyone pretty much found that one.)

2) In the Sorting in Book 1, Harry comes after Sally-Anne Perks, who comes after the Patils. When being called in "alphabetical order" for the practical Charms exam, however, Harry goes in with Pansy Parkinson, Padma Patil, and Parvati Patil. Where did Sally-Anne go?

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 9:51 PM EST

cfsdimples says:

Littlewonder17 and jade lyra... you probably aren't reading this, but i'll post anyway:

You were confused about how Harry and Hermione got thier wands back. It wasn't an oversight by JKR- she explains that Ron gave both Harry and Hermione their wands back when he comes outside with the others. Umbridge took thier wands in her office and left them there.

To the people at HPANA... can you make it possible to reply to individual posts? Or possibly have links to screen names?

Posted Jun 27, 2003 at 9:58 PM EST