Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

Fawks - I agree with Muggle Wizard on this, he did indeed not know what the Prophecy was because the only witness to Trelawney's prophecy other than Dumbledore was an eaves dropper who was "luckily caught before he could hear the whole thing" (similar wording, anyway). So Voldemort only know the first part of the prophecy, about a child being born at the end of the seventh moon (July) with equal powers as him to a family who has defied him three times. He did not know anything about being marked an equal, him having to kill Harry/Neville or vice versa, et cetera, et cetera.

He would have gone after it himself, but he didn't find it to be worth the risk. At first, he thought he could just get someone else to run in and grab it for him. He seemed to be using the Imperius curse to do this, as Harry kept seeing the search for the prophecy in his dreams. Either that or he wanted to plant the image of exactly where the prophecy was in Harry's mind before he baited him into the Department of Mysteries.

As I said, he didn't find it to be worth the risk going in himself because no one in the Ministry thought he existed (aside from one or two people in the Order). While he was still gathering back his power and more followers, he didn't want the Ministry to be in his way. When he found out that Harry and him were connected in the mind, he found out how easy it would be to get Harry to get the prophecy for him (by then he found out the secret to retrieving the prophecies). I think that he came to aid his followers for the reason that he was so excited at a chance to easily kill Harry, as well as his Death Eaters weren't doing too well in getting the prophecy, and the prophecy was in such danger of being broken and forgotten.

Posted Jul 1, 2003 at 10:03 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 29

hpkid14 says:

muggle wizard
i understand what u mean, but in the first book everyone was not aware of sirius innocence. Not even dumbledore.



Now from the beginning of pa i have always wondered about james and sirius friendship. Please correct me if i have missed an important detail but i dont think i am. Now most of you probaly remember a quote from ron in ss. He said "not one wizard went bad that wasnt in slytherin."

I then asked myself how that can be so when at the time sirius black was considered the most dangerous and bad of all the wizards in Azkaban.

Which then means how could james and sirius be best friends when they were in separate houses. Just doesnt seem practical. It may have just been an error.

Posted Jul 1, 2003 at 10:45 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

lisashes - About the door "mistake"... perhaps it wasn't a mistake. I feel that it is possible that DD or someone else may have been there. I have felt through the books that DD or someone was present, even though they were not seen. Dumbledore even says something to the effect to Harry at the end of OOP that he was watched more closely that he had imagined. Dumbledore always seems very close (physically) to Harry... similar to the "emergency" owls swooping in, DD is there.
Just a thought.

Posted Jul 1, 2003 at 10:48 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

hpkid14, you're right of course. But I don't think it matters what other people think about Sirius or anyone else; what matters is what is true. IMO, the Sorting Hat doesn't sort people based off of what others think about them... Ron may have stated the fact "not one wizard went bad that wasn't in Slytherin" without knowing what house Sirius was even in. The kid was only 13. Hey, at 13 I didn't know who most of the bad people in the world were. I don't even know today who the most dangerous person who is in prison is in the United States or what state he was from. And if he did escape, I wouldn't care much about his background. I'd just make sure to keep an eye on the news and watch my back. I wouldn't care where he was from. Probably the same thing with Sirius? Oh, I don't know if I'm even making sense.

Posted Jul 1, 2003 at 11:10 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

WitchyWays -- Welcome! Your post is very much representative of what I think many of us find in the book. I think N-H Nick explained the ghosts thing as much as he could. I don't think it's a particularly easy topic to explain. People are used to death being the end of life, but what N-H Nick implies is that life continues at death in a different way and one of the first things you have to do is decide whether you want to be a ghost or go on to something else (which N-H Nick doesn't and can't describe since he chose to be a ghost rather than going on that other path). That other path must be good, though, because there are not many ghosts. Just an opinion there.

Ah yes, I would suspect that eventually Harry will have to explain to one or more of his close friends just what was in that prophecy. What do some of the rest of you think? The prophecy really needs to be understood. I think it will be too easy for Harry to overlook the fact that his mortal life MUST be miserable until he defeats Voldemort (or dies trying, thus ending his mortal life). That realization will bring on the deciding battle in Book 7 -- the one that we have no idea how it concludes. It may be by Book 7 that we are all hoping that Harry dies just so he no longer has to be miserable (I hope it doesn't get that bad, but as has been said here before, it is JKR's book and her ideas that end up in them).

owlpost -- Thanks for finding that. That quote should put that idea to rest.

Posted Jul 1, 2003 at 11:32 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 29

hpkid14 says:

how do u put a picture on ur profile

Posted Jul 1, 2003 at 11:33 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1106

Ima Quidditch Fan says:

If Harry were the heir of Gryffindor, would that make him part of wizard royalty?

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 12:26 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

hpkid14 -- the pictures are called avatars and you can find some at http://www.wizardingworld.co.uk. Then you go to your HPANA profile page and insert the appropriate URL on the avatar line.

lauryn -- I'm guessing on the scoring of the OWLs -- it sounds like the practical exams are subjective and the written exams are a mix of subjective and objective. It seems to me that the impressions of the grader make a large impact on the score. As the exams are not graded by the actual Hogwarts professors, I think the scores are a little more fair because the testers (generally) don't have favorites. I was under the impression though that the testers were impressed with Harry and so I think he'll get good marks.

About what students wear under their robes -- that's like asking what we wear under our clothes! My imagination has always implied that you would wear somewhat normal clothes under your robes (maybe a white shirt/blouse and a pair of trousers). Snape's memory does have me questioning that a little bit.

I still think that Sirius is long gone. You don't have to see a dead body to know that someone is dead. A couple of examples (please don't think I'm trying to show any disrespect to the people involved -- I'm just making a case). The Shuttle Columbia astronauts are dead. Some people who were blown up by the atomic bombs were obliterated, and they are certainly dead.

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 12:29 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Yes, I agree with WiltingFlowers22 on the illustrations. I don't know, perhaps they were geared toward a slightly older audience this time around, or perhaps it's just the fact that the students are all getting older...

And, lots of people are too wonderful to die. Remember that Sirius may be liked by many of us readers, but in the wizarding world he died still perceived by most as a criminal (NOTE: I am not advocating here that capital punishment is evil, nor am I advocating that it be used. The justice system in HP is quite a bit different from that in place in the US, as we see in Harry's "trial" in Book 5.). My point here, then, is that many good people die all the time. As a matter of fact, I hope that when people die that they die as good people -- respected people -- as opposed to dying as evil people.

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 12:56 AM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 340

Prongs1 says:

Muggle wizard and newtscamander, yeh u guys are right i just reread most of the book when wide awake and get alot more things.does anyone know the importance of fawks cos he always seems to save harry n dumbledore.

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 6:17 AM EST

Old Chortlebones

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 2601

Newt Scamander says:

Phoenixashes - I agree, Mrs. Figg's cats could very well be kneazles. When I reread that part after you pointed this out, I realized that, too. I don't know an ounce of French other than "Bonjour" and "Merci," though, so I can't confirm anything about the names of her cats/kneazles.

Fawkes - All goes to show you the beauties of sleep. ::Laughs:: Anyway, about Fawkes, I believe he is just a loyal phoenix. Phoenixes (is that the right plural?) are hard to domesticate, but it's obvious that Albus has managed to do so (inviting even further into the reader's mind that he is one of the greatest wizards of this time). Fawkes in its loyalty helps Harry and Dumbledore by giving them its song, which supposedly boosts the spirit of the side of good and haunts the side of evil (which is why Voldemort may have had trouble at the end of Book 4). It healed Harry in the Chamber of Secrets with its tears because it knew that Albus Dumbledore, its owner, loved Harry. It can help Harry so much because it has the power of apparation, and can do so anywhere, even at Hogwarts, it seems (I suppose only the apparating spell used by wizards is considered apparating, which is why it can do so at Hogwarts).

If you dig all this phoenix stuff and want to learn more about creatures, I suggest buying "my" (well, okay, J.K. Rowling's) book "Fantastic Beasts & Where to Find Them." ::Winks::

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 11:28 AM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

truebluepotterfan:

wat ur saying is the FIRST time that harry repelled the dementors he saw his future self across the lake. but this is not possible because the time turner was only used later, after the first harry woke up in the hospital and dumbledore asked hermione to use the time turner to save sirius and buckbeak.. wat im asking is that how is it possible for him to see his future self across the lake when the time turner was not in use yet?

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 11:57 AM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

oh, and abt the curse that killed sirius. i think ive posted this earlier that there's no evidence to show that sirius was merely stunned because

"Harry saw sirius duck bellatrix's jet of RED light: he was laughing at her"

and later "the second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest"
we see that the color of the curse that killed him was NOT specified and i believe it to be the avarda kedavra because its the only one that kills and a stunning spell only momentarily shocks u.. im still not sure abt the veil thing though.. i think he died because of the curse and him falling into the veil might forshadow the possiblity of future communication between the living and the dead.. since it was the chamber of death that the scene took place..
i dun think he died because he fell backwards into it..

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 12:06 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

eclektic -- Harry didn't understand that a time turner was in use, but Hermione made it clear that you could use the time turner and encounter your past self, at which point your past self goes crazy. OK, so these things with time are weird. The fact is that both Harry and Hermione were present in two different places at the same time for those three hours. Harry saw himself, but of course you can't see yourself, so he assumed it was his father. I don't know, this stuff is confusing. It makes some sense to me (although we all know it isn't really possible IRL).

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 12:06 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 58

phoenixfeathers says:

Someone mentioned earlier that the bartender at the Hog's Head could be Aberforth. I agree. The room does smell like goats which were associated with Aberforth. Also, Harry thought him vaguely familiar which makes sense since he saw the picture of the previous Order.

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 12:12 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

To all who have brought up the Aberforth idea -- I agree that it's a possibility. But I wonder, if Aberforth does run the place, what happened to make Aberforth ban Mundungus from the place? They were both in the order, weren't they?

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 12:23 PM EST

Auror

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2374

TrueBluePotterFan says:

eclektic,
As for the time turner, I agree totally with Muggle Wizard. That is exactly what I was saying.

As for the curse used prior to Sirius's death, it doesn't matter what the curse was, if the death was caused by passing through the veil. As stated earlier I believe that the veil seperates the two worlds, physical and spiritual. That is why Lupin would not let Harry run through the veil after Sirius. I believe if he would of, it would have killed Harry also.

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 12:32 PM EST

George Can'tStandya says:

I need a little help in having the prefect system explained to me.

1) How many prefects does each house have? I thought it was two per house, but if they are picked in the fifth year, then their would be six. Two from teh fifth year, two from the sixth year and two from the seventh year.

2) How long does the prefect serve. If it is a one year deal and teh prefect is always a fifth year then it seems fair. If you remain a prefect then Ginny Weasley for example will never have the opportunity to be given a badge, becuase she will be in her seventh year when Ron and Hermione graduate.

Also, if OWLS are in your fifth year, and NEWTS are in sixth year, what is done during the seventh year, are NEWTS continued, or two year courses. JUst wondering at how these systems make sense. Thanks for the help.

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 12:32 PM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 468

Charlie'sMum says:

Okay - this actually kept me up last night - any Brits out there who can explain the prefect system to me? I know that there is 1 female and 1male prefect in each house, and they are sort of "Resident Assistants". Now, Percy was Gryffindor Prefect from Book 1 - Book 3, so I would assume that would me no other male prefect was picked until book 4. Now, if a prefect was picked in book 4 he would have been in his 5th year, and would be in his 6th year in the 5th book, so why did Herimone and Ron become prefects? Do they just pick 2 new ones every year? If so, how many prefects are running around? Or, do they just wait until the previous prefects leave school, in which case, no one in Ginny's year could be picked since Hr. and R are still there. Follow me so far?
One thing I DO know, for the person who asked, there is ONLY 1 head boy and 1 head girl per year, and that person is picked in his 7th year. And I think you can be a head boy or girl without being a prefect - I'm thinking its more of a validictorian type thing - so the smartest person gets it. And I'd bet Hermione will be head girl, and someone from a different house could be the head boy.
So, if anyone can help clear up this prefect question, I'll be able to sleep nights!

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 1:01 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 268

Tadhgain says:

Newt Scamander, Crookshanks has a bottlebrush tail. Atleast that is what is it described as. I think he is part kneazle, hence him being able to sense that Sirius and Wormtail were not real animals.

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 1:09 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 29

hpkid14 says:

hey

You all remember the battle scene between dumbledore and voldmort. Well all those stone statues that came to life on dumbledores side are clues of whats to come. The goblins, houselfs, and centaurs will all probaly be persuaded to fight for the ministry against voldemort.

just a guess.

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 1:17 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

Muggle Wizard...nicely put about the time turner. I understand it but couldn't figure out how to explain it :-)

Aberforth certainly could be the Hog's Head bartender. However, I don't remember it saying anywhere that he was ever in the order. I mean, the way I understood it, just because he was DD's brother didn't mean that he became a strong and powerful wizard. I thought Aberforth sort of "took the low road" so to speak...did unmentionable things with a goat, became a bartender at a seedy tavern (possibly). Did it really mention somewhere Aberforth was in the order?

About Hermione being prettier now...possibly she is growing into a lovely young lady. I mean, many of us have akward phases at around age 12-13 because it's sort of a changing stage from kid to more adult. Hermione's teeth aren't too long anymore remember. I always imagined her as rather pretty, but maybe that 'cause I like her :-) I mean, for example, see how much Emma Watson changed from movie 1 to movie 2?

As for the prefects, I thought that there were just two prefect per house per year (1 girl 1 boy) and they were 5th years, and one head boy and head girl per year for the whole school, chosen from the 7th year. However, CarolAlutius has proof this isn't so...so I'm really confused now.

George Can'tStandya...O.W.L.s are in the fifth year and N.E.W.T.s are in the seventh year. Remember Fred and George were in 7th year in OotP and hadn't taken their N.E.W.T.s yet (and of course, left before taking them). I believe the O.W.L.s are like entrance exams to get into N.E.W.T. level classes for your "major" you've chosen so to speak (more like profession, such as an auror), for the last two years. In sixth and seventh year the wizards focus on the classes needed for the profession they've chosen (sort of like "upper division" classes for your major in US universities). Hope that made sense.

I'm still having a hard time seeing all the posts. I just keep retyping a higher and higher number in the address until it doesn't work, so if I've repeated what someone already said, my apologies.

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 1:21 PM EST

Auror

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2374

TrueBluePotterFan says:

Aravis,
I believe in HP5 that when Moody was showing the picture of the original members of the Order, that Dumbledore's brother was in it. Chapter 9, pg 173 US

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 1:52 PM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 29

hpkid14 says:

hi all.
Now from the beginning of PA i have always wondered about james and sirius friendship. Please correct me if i have missed an important detail but i dont think i have. Now most of you probaly remember this quote from ron in ss. He said "not one wizard went bad that wasnt in slytherin."

I then asked myself how that can be so when at the time sirius black was considered the most dangerous and bad of all the wizards in Azkaban,Because nobody knew of his innocence which was discovered in PA. So the wizarding world including dumbledore believed him being a death eater.

Which then means how could james and sirius be best friends when they were in separate houses. Just doesnt seem practical.

Jkr mentions james and lily being in gryffindor on numerus accasions, Never about sirius.

You also need to remember what the black house was like in OP sirius's mothers painting was always yelling names at the halfbloods and traitors in her house. There was also a lot of dark trinkets there.

Could it be possible that when sirius arrived at hogwarts that he believed like his parents that only purebloods should be allowed and mudbloods were filth.

We all no slytherins deal with purebloods.Which means sirius was in slytherin. How then could you be friends with a kid in gryffindor.

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 1:54 PM EST

Prefect

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 361

LaDonna says:

This might sound odd to most of you, but I don't think Harry will tell either Ron or Hermione about the prophecy first. I think he'll tell Ginny. My reason behind this is he tells her about wanting to talk to Sirus, and she arranges it. He asks her, when he could have asked anyone else on the team, if Ron's getting better. And he knows after the whole chamber of secrets thing, that she can keep a secret and that she is on his side.

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 2:00 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

Lauryn...I did notice that "mate" thing. I mean, I don't think it was ever used before and then it was used like 3 times in two pages. Weird.

TrueBluePotterFan...thanks for the heads up on Aberforth. But Moody said that photo was "the only time I've ever met him, strange bloke" so how could he be in the Order? Or maybe he was in the Order for a very short time and then defected or dropped out or something? Theories anyone?

Posted Jul 2, 2003 at 2:34 PM EST