Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

Marauder you bring up a big fact. It is true that the Prophecy says that one must kill the other, so we know that muggles can't kill Voldemort in particular, but they can still help can't they? And the whole Muggles joing voldemort is still hanging... that's a scary thought.
I agree with you George Can'tStandYa that muggles are probably going to have some contribution, the question is solely, in what will they contribute too? I don't think it's just House Elves that the wizarding world need to 'equalize' with. The whole fountain is brought back into question with the whole of every species uniting as equals. Including all forms of species from house elves and goblins, to giants, centuars and muggles.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:24 PM EST

George Can'tStandya says:

Delay- I do remember teh Slaem Witch Trials being brought up, but it was described as something that was either a) ineffective, the muggles never caught real wizards or witches or b) something the wizards considered laughable, tehy would freeze teh fire, and it only tickled. One witch in particular would get caught on purpose becuase she enjoyed teh feeling. So even then the wizard world holds teh muggle world in very low esteem (MR. Weasley and Dumbledore being the exceptions and Dean's love of Soccer/Football). Even Ron is constantly confounded or downright dismissive of Muggle activities. The only explanation of the secrecy I have seen so far, is Hagrid's theory that Muggles would bother the Wizards. Which represents that Wizards think they have tons to offer Muggles, and Muggles have nothing to offer in return. Yet, in OOP we are shown that the young healer is practicing using both wizarding and muggle healing theories to cure the wound.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:25 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

George Can'tStandYa - I love your thoughts on this, they really open my mind, but even with that healer practising muggle techniques in healing, it didn't really work on the majorly magical type wound Mr. Weasley had. But your point is still Huge and I like it!

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:28 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

ok but why would muggles join Voldemort?

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:30 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

and the muggle healing "theories" didnt work at all...

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:32 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

GirlieGirl- thats a crazy idea about Snape perhaps liking Lily. I mean she did stand up for him, but didn't he say that he didn't need help from a "mudblood". That seems a little rude and against his liking her.. just a thought
Cathaholic- I left out part of a sentence in that post above, sorry ... "I meant to say that Voldemort could not have warned Lily to avoid the curse OUT OF concern for her safety or because of a family loyalty of some kind." Do you mean that he COULD (not, could not) have warned Lily about the curse out of concern? Because what you said earlier makes it seem that this is what you mean. And it's an excellent theory. I like it. I agree with you on that!! The whole turning PureBlood is kind of.. drastic though. It's definitly an excellent observation.. but is it possible for him to that? I mean can he "invoke" himself into a pure-blood family. And Lily wasn't pure-blood, so that part really brings up questions about him saving her if he hates muggle borns.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:34 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

George Can't Standya--excellent point. How are we sure that the wizarding world is so much more powerful? Aside from the fact that wizards know that Muggles exist, it seems only the half-bloods would know enough about both worlds. But you've gotta remeber something, that OotP happened in 1995, so technology isn't as advanced. But Muggles, yes, they still have nuculear weapons. And exactly, how do Squibs just show up in wizarding famalies and wizards in Muggle ones? I really want to know that...

Cathaholic--good point about Voldy. I mean, yes, he is half blood, and I'm guessing that all of his followers were pureblood. And obviously, they have absolutely no clue that he is half blood. Remember their reaction when Harry told them? I wonder if they knew it was true, what would they think... they must have thought that being in Slytherin and being his heir was enough... and another thing, what happened to Bellatrix's husband? I'm pretty sure he got out of Azkaban too, but how come he wasn't metioned?

Hmm, this looks relatively short compared to my others...

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:36 PM EST

Marauder says:

I think that house elves and other magical creatures will play a much bigger role than muggles. If people can recall the end of CoS Lucius was reluctant to attack Dobby when he protected Harry. I think a reason that house elves are forced to serve wizards is because of how powerfully magical they are. I know it's been said before but I see magical creatures being more important.
Another important thing to remember is that JKR said someone will learn magic later in life and I have a feeling that this person will be very important.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:36 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

Maybe he liked Lily who knows...just a comment

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:37 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

GirlieGirl- asking why muggles would join voldemort is like asking why wizards would join voldemort? If muggles were to suddenly find out about this world thats been hidden from them, not only would they have a hard time believing it, but with a a "war" beginning, Voldemort could persuade them to help him.. I don't know how. He could say things like it was the "good" wizards" fault why so many muggles die from wizarding ways. I mean, if you think about it, there are huge possibilities that Muggles could help Voldemort

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:37 PM EST

Marauder says:

Flitterbloom- maybe the reason Snape called her a mudblood was because she had already turned him down.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:40 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

Well, I have this feeling that Muggles will play an important part, but they won't join Voldy, I mean, think about it... would he let them?

And if you thought that convincing Fudge and the Ministry that Voldy had returned was hard, think about convincing Muggles. First of all, you have to prove that a thing like a wizard even exists, and that would take a lot, considering how good the Ministry has been at hiding it. And then Muggles would feel really intimidated to be working with people who could curse them if they wanted to at any time. No, I think Muggles will just be dying, and the Ministry will be having a hard time covering up like they did 16 years ago.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:41 PM EST

Chief Quibbler Editor

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 2926

The Obsesser says:

Flitterbloom--you know how sometimes adolescents think they hate someone, but they really like them, and their friends can see that, but they keep insisting that they hate them, and gradually grow to like them? Maybe Snape liked Lily, but he just didn't realize it...

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:44 PM EST

Prefect

House: Gryffindor
Points: 390

OliverPavo says:

I keep getting followers for here about 4 a day, has anyone said anything to me, because if you did I can't find it.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:46 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

I like that theory strawbeez girl. I do agree with Maurader that magical creatures will more likely play a bigger part in the up coming books than muggles will. And you do make a point about Lily Marauder. I think that the whole Snape liking Lily is definitly a possibility.
I think Bellatrix is going to play a huge role in the next books. I mean, not just the fact that her and Sirius were related, and Harry hates her immensly for doing whatever it is she did to make Sirius fall through the veil, but we know that Neville hates her just as much.

MAURADER- I didn't realize that JKR had said that someone is going to learn magic later in life.. could this perhaps be Petunia Dursely?

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:47 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

Remember that Voldemort hates mudbloods and "muggles" by the way ?...wouldnt be shamefull for him to need help from "muggles" being him the "dark lord" that changed his name because he didnt want to have anything to do with "mudbloods"...does that mean that his death eaters and Voldemort himself is not powerfull enough to defeat Dumbledore?

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:48 PM EST

George Can'tStandya says:

And no the stitches didn't help Mr. Weasley, but the first couple of wizarding cures didn't help either. Now it could just be that JKR threw that in teh book as a comic moment, but all of these moments concerning MR. Weasley and his true appreciation of Muggles make me think it is more than a weird quirk, rather a necessary part of his personality that will make him the next Minister of Magic after the Muggles know about the wizards. To bridge the gaps you need a person who can appreciate both sides. And Mr. Weasley is the king of this particular talent.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:49 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

GirlieGirl- Wow good point! But could Voldemort just persuade muggles to turn on DD and the MOM to help him, and then he could kill them? That's kinda freaky too
George Can'tStandYa- Man I love your brain. lol Arthur Weasley as Minister of Magic.. thats a great prediction! He does have that certain flare for muggles and he could unite them, but what about all the other creatures? I think Mr. Weasley is a great candidate.. he's open to new ideas and what not so.. this could turn out big

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:54 PM EST

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

I think dunbledore is gonna be misnister of magic and minerva is going to be headmaster

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 6:08 PM EST

George Can'tStandya says:

I, unfortunately, don't think Dumbledore is going to make it. Dumbledore's great virtue and it is repeated enough is that what is there to fear with Albus Dumbledore around. I think after book 6, Dumbledore will no longer be around, and teh question will be can tehy do it without him. Of course I thought it wouls be Hagrid to die in OOP so shows what I know.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 6:13 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

George Can'tStandYa- Yeah I thought it was gonna be Dumbledore that goes in the 5th book, but no matter what I still thinks he's going. So I naturally I don't think he'll be Minister of Magic either. I do agree with girliegirl that Prof. McGonagall will probably be headmaster though.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 6:25 PM EST

delay says:

Hmm, I haven't had this happen to me yet, but I don't think that my last one posted. So it goes. I will just post a short statement summing it up.

I have serious questions about the plausibility of having some muggle/wizard collaboration in future books. I can't see the magic community revealing itself and muggles just accepting this. There would be huge upheaval. There would be non-magic people demanding all wizards be marked or something. I just think that it is too big for two books. If JK R were to do this and there was just some harmonious joining of forces I would think that it would completely ruin the suspension of disbelief she has going. It is not as simple as wizards deciding to repect everyone and moving on with their lives.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 6:30 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

Oops! Sorry about the double post there everyone. Before I log off for the day I just want to bring up something that has been driving me crazy since I finished the 4th book way back when, but I didn't see a place to put it in earlier. Ok, since I read this passage in GoF and read about all the times Harry wanted to "strike" at Dumbledore throughout OotP, I've been beginning to question Dumbledore's motives. Here is the passage from the 4th book (The Parting Of The Ways pg 604 in the Canadian Edition) when Harry was reliving the coming back of Voldemort to DD:
"He said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used someone else's," Harry told Dumbledore. "He said the protection my - my mother left in me - he'd have it too. And he was right - he could touch me without hurting himself, he touched my face" (REASON I QUESTION DD's MOTIVE..) For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes.
Now I know it continues to say that Harry must have imagined it, and I know that JKR says the reason Harry wanted to strike at DD was because of Voldemort being able to enter Harry's mind.. But before OotP came out, 2 of my friends and I tried to figure out stuff that might happen.. We came up with stuff like, what if Dumbledore is (i know this sounds crazy) somehow on Voldemorts side. In the 4th book when Voldemort says that his most loyal is at Hogwarts (I know that we all think it was Barty Crouch Jr.) but what if it's really Dumbledore??
I know all of this probably sounds horrible to your ears (well eyes) but, I neeeeeded to bring up my questions, and I'm seriously hoping that I can get as many views as possible on this. If anyone wants to talk to me about anything relating to HP e-mail me at andrea_lavery@hotmail.com or if you have MSN Messenger and want to add me, use that e-mail address! Thanks So Much!

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 6:39 PM EST

Witch

House: Gryffindor
Points: 661

Flitterbloom says:

Quick Comment: delay when I brought up the whole muggle/wizard worlds working together, I didn't quite mean that the wizarding world would REVEAL itself, but more like the question, what if somehow it slipped, someone said something.. what if muggles "accidentally" found out about this world. You bring up a good point about the complications of it.. I do know what you're saying there. I just wanted peoples opinions and thoughts on it!! PS EVERYONE.. READ MY BIG POST!

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 6:42 PM EST

Marauder says:

Flitterbloom- the reason DD had a triumphat glint in his eyes was explained in a good way to me before. As Hagrid speculated in SS 'Voldemort didn't have enough human left in him to die' so now that he has Harry's blood in him he has enough human in him to die, doesn't quite fit along with the prophecy but it could work. Although I don't know if this is right it sounds like a good explanation to me.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 6:56 PM EST

delay says:

As for Mr. Weasley being the Minister that "understands" muggles. I never really thought that he had a very good handle on it? I mean he is facinated by them and all, but I don't think that translates into an understanding. Regardless, I don't think there is really even any reason to beleive that Fudge is going to step down. I think it possible that he will try and DD will convince him to stay. I don't know that is blind speculation.

Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 7:06 PM EST