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Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

JUNE 23, 2003 at 2:37 PM

Posted by CHEESER
Source: HPANA

So, you've read Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, and pretty darn quick, too. Like many others around the world, you have a sore neck and strained eyes, the result of reading an 870-page book in two or three days. Now you want to share your arduous journey with others. This is the place to do it.

First I'll offer my own thoughts (LET THE SPOILERS BEGIN).

One word: WOW. And I thought the Dursleys were mean. As I'm thinking of where to begin talking about Order of the Phoenix, the one thing that keeps coming to the forefront of my mind is the book's grave look into the corruption and abuse of power (and vice-versa, the power of abuse and corruption). Whether found in the annals of history or safely between the book covers of children's fiction, it can be accurately restated that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

More on that later, but first, the death: How many of you were right? Raise your hands. Sirius was definitely on my short-list. When JK said a major character was going to die, I knew it wouldn't be any of the trio, I thought it might be an older Weasley, but then my thoughts turned to Sirius. He was given to Harry, so how painful could it be to have him taken away? That was my reasoning, anyway.

Is Cho finally "over-and-out"? Will the Weasley twins' business continue to succeed? Does the Ministry now understand how much it needs Dumbledore?

UPDATE: We now have a full-fledged forum available. Click here to start using it!

Q: What will happen to the content here?

A: Everything will be saved. In fact, I'd like recommendations on what to do with all the great posts here. Can we move some of it into the new forum? Just link back to it? Let me know (just mention my name, Cheeser, in any post).

Q: I don't like change! Waaaa!

A: That's not a question, but I understand. The new system is capable of so much more, including separate threads so people can have detailed conversations about certain aspects of the book. You can still have a free-for-all thread, too. It's your forum! Do whatever you want with it.

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Reader Comments (10604)

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Madam Malkin

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

JKR said in an interview that James was Chaser. But I must admit, Snape's memory in book 5 does somewhat contradict that. The movie says that James was seeker, but you can't trust the movie. They have changed a lot of things, and it's annoying. But JK says he was Chaser, so, I don't know....

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:32 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

x waddi wasi x- I think James´ snitch and hair thing was so cute I´m so glad that Jk decided to describe James more

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:39 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

You are not sure about what?

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:42 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

I dont like the harry/Ginny idea either ...I think harry should go out with a very pretty girl like cho ..but not cho ..I dont like her at all

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:44 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

I think she cries because she wants everuone to think she cares about cedric ...she keeps going out with other guys (not just harry)

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:46 AM EST

Madam Malkin

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

Beatrice M N - yes, in the MOVIE it shows that James was a seeker. But in the books it says nothing of the sort. From info in the books, we don't know. But I did see in an interview that JK said he's a Chaser. don't remember where. It must be one of the interviews on MuggleNet. You can't really trust the movie - they change stuff. I mean, Harry's scar is off to the side in the movie. Anyway, nowhere in the book does it tell us what position James played, and the movie, in my opinion, can't be trusted. But thanks for the insight.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:46 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

leslie- what do you think about cho and harry?

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:50 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

yeah ...but I like the hermione/ron idea

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:52 AM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 164

Kadyak says:

George Can'tStandya's analysis of the secrecy decree as being inherently immoral is quite thought provoking. The moral question he raises is critical and it cannot be simply dismissed.

A few questions:

1) What impression do we have of JKR's attitudes on this matter? Would she see the decree as the height of racial discrimination?

2) Why has Hermione Granger not thought about this, being muggle-born herself?

3) If this idea were suggested to her, how would she react?

Of course, these last two questions hinge on the first.

4) What parallels can we see between the secrecy decree in Harry Potter and the Prime Directive in Star Trek?

5) Is the Prime Directive equally immoral by the same standard?

The moment I read George's post, I thought of the Prme Directive, whose very purpose is to uphold a deeply held moral value of non-interference, of allowing a race to develop on its own without imposing anything upon it. Violation of the Prime Directive can lead to the most sever of consequences - even when it seems that its violation would be the merciful thing to do (although it is violated at times). How many times is a Starfleet officer - Picard in particular - placed in a position where violation of the Prime Directive could bring about unquestionable benefits in the short run - save lives even? In the end, it is a miserable constraint. It can be outright heartbreaking to obey the Prime Directive.
But it is there because those who thought it up considered carefully the long-term consequences of any kind of intervention, not just the short-term benefits.

It seems to me that in the wizarding world of Harry Potter the secrecy decree serves the same purpose. It is also very much the case in real human history that magic has been not just frowned upon - but its purported users outright hunted. "Muggles" have shown themselves unable to handle such things as magic.

I'll say it again, I think the question raised here is of immense importance, even if I don't agree with George's particular persective. It deserves to be examined from every angle.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:53 AM EST

Madam Malkin

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

girliegirl - I really don't think Cho and Harry will work out. I don't know, maybe it will. Maybe they will get together again and then break up again, I don't know. But I am all for Harry and Ginny. That's what I'd like to see.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:54 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

I think Jk should add a new girl to be harry´s girlfriend

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:54 AM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 164

Kadyak says:

Fortunately for me, my wife is way ahead of me in reading posts.

With regard to the mere idea of Narcissa Malfoy taking a post in the MoM in the light of Lucius being captured, I have two questions: 1) Does anybody know what "Narcissa" means? 2)DOES THE NAME "NAGINA" MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU???!!! No, I am not referring to Voldemort's pet and not getting the name right. Think Rikki Tikki Tavi.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:57 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

what was that kad yak post about? george who?

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:57 AM EST

Madam Malkin

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

Beatrice M N - I am not talkking about what Harry played, I'm talking about what James played. Yes, on those pages James is playing with the snitch, and it contradicts JK saying James is Chaser. I've already said that. But we still don't know from the books what position James played. But JK did say Chaser.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 1:58 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

narcissa is a spanish word and it is an adjective ...a narciss person is a person that thinks of herself as perfect and good-looking

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:00 AM EST

Madam Malkin

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

If you read those pages in book 5 it does NOT say what position he played. It tells that James was playing with the snitch. A snitch that he 'nicked.'

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:01 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

like I said before ...I think james´ snitch and hair thing was so cute =)

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:02 AM EST

Madam Malkin

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

girliegirl - what do you think about the James Potter thing? I mean, it never says that he was a Seeker. He was indeed playing with a snitch, I'm not arguing that. But in an interview JK said Chaser. So I don't know. I think that if the book doesn't say it, we can't be sure about it. If James was a Seeker, the book doesn't say it, and JK said Chaser.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:05 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

well ...I think Im going to sleep too so see you later everyone I mean ...write to ya soon

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:05 AM EST

Squib

House: Gryffindor
Points: 164

Kadyak says:

Why should I buy Hogwarts: A History? I'll know every word in it by the time Hermione is finished at the end of book seven! Sorry, but I couldn't help but follow Ron's lead on that one. Yes, I actually probably would buy it. It could prove very interesting reading in the light of having read the basic series.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:06 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

I dont know but I think james is sooo cute

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:06 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

kadyak- are you sure you are in the right place? none of us is talking about that lol

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:08 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

we are talking about james and how cute he is=)

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:09 AM EST

Madam Malkin

Healer for all Occasions

House: Gryffindor
Points: 3570

Madam Malkin says:

OK, I give up. I still say that the book never said James was a Seeker. I re-read those pages, three times, and all it says is James was playing with the snitch, and that he stole it. It never says he was a Seeker.

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:10 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

maybe he was a chaser and later a seeker or something like that

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:11 AM EST

girliegirl

Student

House: Gryffindor
Points: 294

girliegirl says:

or maybe Jk did a mistake...or perhaps we are missing something from one of the books ...too many pages to remember everything!

Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 2:13 AM EST

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