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JULY 9, 2003 at 12:31 AM
From the New York Times
:
What is the secret of the explosive and worldwide success of the Harry Potter books? Why do they satisfy children and - a much harder question - why do so many adults read them?
A surprising number of people, including many students of literature, will tell you they haven't really lived in a book since they were children. Sadly, being taught literature often destroys the life of the books.
...the attraction for children can be explained by the powerful working of the fantasy of escape and empowerment, combined with the fact that the stories are comfortable, funny, just frightening enough.
It is written for people whose imaginative lives are confined to TV cartoons, and the exaggerated (more exciting, not threatening) mirror-worlds of soaps, reality TV and celebrity gossip. Its values, and everything in it, are, as Gatsby said of his own world when the light had gone out of his dream, "only personal." Nobody is trying to save or destroy anything beyond Harry Potter and his friends and family.
The newspaper has also posted five responses to this article, one of which is:
For those of us who have many times found ourselves trapped in discussions (if such they can be called) of this sort with adult Potter fans, but who have lacked the clarity or sensitivity to state our side of the case so well, Ms. Byatt's article is indispensable: a classic and precise piece of true criticism, neither bile nor reverence, but brilliant dissection.
Let children who love Harry read on. But let adults know that their obsessive devotion is feeding something far more frightening than the dark arts: a retreat from the complexities of adulthood in a dangerous world.
Thanks to Geri for finding the original article this weekend (sorry for the delay).
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Wizard
Points: 993
Muggle Wizard says:
OK, the original article didn't really seem to be doing much except taking space in the paper, for my opinion.
On to the reaction letters.
This one from the first letter is great: "But even a centuries-old tradition of intellectual snootiness can't extinguish such pure fun." Let the intellectuals say what they want.
Geez, "A retreat from the complexities of adulthood?" There are so many adult themes in book 5 that I find this one entirely absurd.
The third letter, I think is to the point and represents most of us.
"I managed three chapters in the first tale and was not charmed..." Hmmm, well, I guess it doesn't work its magic with everybody. That's fine. Not everybody reads the Bible, either. That doesn't mean there aren't important points in it.
The next point on diversity is true and relates somewhat to the article in that Boston paper that was just posted here on HPANA.
This last one... "I would suggest that with books as with dining, sometimes you want a nutritious meal, and sometimes you just want chocolate-chip cookies and milk." If HP is just chocolate-chip cookies and milk, you aren't getting the complexity of the story out of it. Refer to the "retreat from the complexities of adulthood" comment.
What is up with this? This only confirms my dislike of most of what is printed in the Times. (That said, their initial review of Book 5 was prety darn good.)
Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 1:06 AM EST
Professor
Points: 1065
Lerah99 says:
Wow, I find this article insulting and short sighted. James and Muggle Wizard, I agree with both of you whole heartedly.
While Harry Potter is a children's book and doesn't have the same ambitions as JRR Tolkein; it isn't exactly hack. JK Rowling works hard to create a world that coexisits with reality as we know it.
The theme of good vs evil often takes a dark turn. She captures our own feelings of helplessness when Lucian Malfoy successfully manipulates a situation. Or when the red tape from the ministry of magic prevents good people from fighting the good fight.
Harry Potter isn't quite Gulliver's Travels (an adult satire in the form of a childrens' book) but it comes close in places. One word: Umbridge
Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 1:52 AM EST
Head Girl
Points: 479
eclektic says:
i cldnt read the responses abt the article but well, i think what they are trying to address is the possibility (note: NOT fact) that some pple can be so wholly obsessed with the series that they forget entirely, that while it is a masterpiece in children's literature as seen with its imaginative prose and intricate detail, it is not reality in itself. i mean, books are a form of escapism but some pple just refuse to leave behind that skilled invention and refuse to return to the real world, so to speak and that can become real scary.
im not saying that this happens to every single person that reads the potter series and participates in discussion forums like this one. but perhaps they are just concerned with such a possiblity since a children's book has not received such unprecedented attention since the dark ages or smtg.. i love the potter series and if any book has made me forget abt my crummy existence if only for a bit, then the author have done a great job. jkr is most definitely one of them...
Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 2:53 AM EST
Wizard
Points: 993
Muggle Wizard says:
OK, here I go again (back on the soapbox -- I'll try not to be controversial), but if reading fiction is escapist and to be used only in moderation, that would imply very bad news for most other authors because by the time an average reader gets through an HP book they would probably be taking things to an extreme by picking up another book any time within the next couple of months. Thoughts here?
I suppose, on further reflection, that eclektic and bowtruckle mean by "obsessed" or "escapist" that people shouldn't be going so far as to buy anything HP or dress up as the characters or doing nothing but reading HP? In that case, yes, I agree with all of this, it's probably not too good to play games all the time; to read the books and never return to reality long enough to apply the lessons that are in the books waiting to be learned.
But I still think that some people (generally in the responses) are taking things to such an extreme. As to the original article, I'll stick by my original comment. Perhaps I'm simply not educated enough (oh boy, this will please the intellectuals) to understand all of it. I still think that it's more a bunch of overanalyzed fluff. If the author just wants to communicate a possibility that people obsess with the series and forget reality, I think there are better ways to do it. Of course, if the author really wasn't trying to get very many people to understand her message and change, then maybe the article is just fine.
Are we obsessed here on the fan boards? I don't know. I don't think so, though. Maybe I'm just in denial.
And, re-reading my post from last night -- I think I should point out that each little paragraph represents a different letter that was sent in. It looks like there were actually six different letters. But I wasn't saying that most of us weren't charmed by the first book!
Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 7:34 AM EST
Witch
Points: 661
Flitterbloom says:
I don't think we're obsessed. I think it's great that so many people are here reading articles and debating and discussing them with people form around the world. I do agree with your first post Muggle Wizard that this is probably a waste of space in the newspaper. If I was 68 nobody would stop me reading these books. I mean whatever happened to freedom..? I don't mean to exagerate the word, but adults shouldn't have to be lectured n reading books that are/were intended for younger audiences. I agree that these books, more the last 2 or 3 than the first 2, are perfect for adult audiences. I don't see the problem with it all.
Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 8:22 AM EST
Editor of the Squibbler
(Moderator)
Points: 2031
eudaemonia says:
re: fan obsession. I think some fans are obsessed, sorry to say, but I don't know what else could be the root of someone's intense desire of knowledge of the (future) HP series to the point of being almost demanding of JK and Co. and believing it's their right to know instead of it being a privilege to know.
The bright side of it is that there are far more terrible things to be obsessed about...
Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 11:47 AM EST
Marauder
Points: 3954
jade says:
I agree with James, MuggleWizard, Lerah99. they could have spent their time doing an article with merit. What a waste of paper and time. What i want to know is whats the problem if it is getting people of all ages reading in an age when nobody was.
Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:00 PM EST
Head
Points: 422
cho_1214 says:
ya jade, that's a good question.
I think that a lot of kids get addicted to hp(why not? it's hard not to in my opinion), and adults want to know why, or parents want to relate to kids and communicate more them, but find that they are also getting addicted to them. books shouldn't be for different age groups and say that it's wrong for people of other age groups to read it mainly because there may be something about that book that attracts other people and there's nothing wrong with that.
Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:33 PM EST
Points: 3950
CowsOJMilkSoil says:
I agree with Syllavus, I mean JKR has created this entire world for anyone to go into. Once you start reading, its so easy to get sucked into the wizarding world yourself
Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 5:56 PM EST
Auror
Points: 2303
padfoot5312 says:
I agree that it is a great set. I like to escape and go to another world. It's not a bad thing. Gives you time to escape from your problems and read about others. It also gives to time to talk to your children on what they think about it. Our family is getting some fun time discussing the ending and just the book
Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 10:03 PM EST
Prefect
Points: 342
Precious says:
I agree with Flitterbloom
Posted Jul 9, 2003 at 11:17 PM EST
Prefect
Points: 390
OliverPavo says:
I don't think mpeople need to care that much that adults are reading. Reading is a way of learning, so why do people care so much that adult just what to learn and expand their minds. LET PEOPLE READ WHAT EVER THE WANT TO READ!!
Posted Jul 10, 2003 at 2:23 AM EST
Points: 105
delay says:
If I thought it were acceptable on this site, I think that I would have a few choice expletives to describe this article. It is the typical hipster lingo you hear from any freshman literature student on a college campus….I should know….I have to listen to them often. The odd thing is that I think the Author of this article, A.S. Byatt has got to be nearly 70. She should really be above this kind of trite critique. I am currently of the opinion that anyone who does not understand the epic appeal of the HP series has either not read them (as I suspect in Byatt’s case) or is not worth convincing.
Posted Jul 10, 2003 at 2:53 AM EST
Prefect
Points: 306
Hedwig1974 says:
Playing devil's advocate here...
Even if adults were getting "sucked into" Harry Potter for escapist reasons, isn't it better to escape into that world via the written word? And isn't it better to get sucked into HP's world, rather than sitting for hours on end watching mindless crap like "The Bachelor" and "For Love or Money", or for God's sakes, "Jackass"??
While I'm reading HP, my mind is constantly working...I love being able to pick up the book and feel like I'm right there with Harry. I have also noticed that since I've been reading the series for the 3rd time that my speaking has become more eloquent and my vocabulary seems to have grown. How many can say that after watching "The Real World?"
Posted Jul 10, 2003 at 12:04 PM EST
Head Girl
Points: 468
Charlie'sMum says:
Okay - Firstly I resent 'psuydo-intellectuals' insulting my intellegence by telling me that I'm not "numinous" because I like Harry Potter. I like a lot of things, and I can quote Keats with the best of them. People like that, to me, seem to think if it isn't dark, depressing and full of pretentious language, it isn't literature. She brings up Gadsby which, okay, may be classic, but I find it kind of plodding and full of obvious symbolism. Plus it's depressing. And as far as whatever she said about using worlds and ideas already existing - Shakespeare lasted as long as he did because he writes universial, timeless themes - basically the very things this woman is accusing JKR of doing. The reason HP works is because we DO recognize the world, she HAS created a new world based on mythology, other literature, etc. That, incidentally is just what Terry Pratchett does (and in that she is right - read him, he is brilliant, but not as an alternative to JKR but in addition to.)
When 100 years from now HP is still being read, and most likely having the fun taken out if it in every English class then it will be proven to be classic literature.
And yes, she really does look like Umbridge. That made me laugh!
Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 8:27 AM EST
Head Girl
Points: 468
Charlie'sMum says:
I just looked up numinous - it means evincing the presence of a deity; "a numinous wood"; "the most numinous moment in the Mass 2: of or relating to or characteristic of a numen. So this lady said "Ms. Rowling's magic world has no place for the numinous." HUH?
Posted Jul 11, 2003 at 9:12 AM EST
Lycanthropist for W.S.S.
Points: 3603
Alchemist 530 says:
I think all of these attacks by literary intellectuals might just end up backfiring. From OOTP: "If she could have done one thing to make sure that every single person in this school will read your interview, it was banning it!" I think the spirit of this quote definitely applies to this. If there's one way to make kids (and adults) want to read something, it’s for snooty intellectuals to condemn it. I think that Byatt is just (metaphorically) screwing herself over by writing stuff like this. Her attack won't ever deter people from reading Harry Potter, and it might make more people curious about it.
Posted Jul 14, 2003 at 6:36 PM EST
Order of Merlin, 2nd Class
Points: 1660
siriusgyal says:
Okay she wasted Good paper to tlk all of her tripe aout HP. I thinks she needs a good kick up the bum and needs telling a thing or to about life. The reason people red the books because it's a escape from everything to read about a boy who has over come so much in his short life is a really interesting book.
I think she should try and read all 5 books and hush up
Posted Jan 14, 2004 at 7:06 AM EST
Professional Beater
Points: 20891
feltonluver says:
Yes I agree, that I love reading harry potter because its a world totally different from what we have and its a really great story. Also developed empathy for harry!
Posted Feb 29, 2004 at 8:50 PM EST
Mediwitch
Points: 2608
nickyole1 says:
I agree with mostly everyone here, so why repeat what they are saying? Anyways, why so much critcism on Harry Potter? These people are just jealous, I think ...
Posted Jul 18, 2004 at 2:35 PM EST
The Gryffindor Guy
Points: 2727
z Jamie Potter z says:
That's a really good way of putting it. Living in a book. I know exactly what the writer means. It's so true, I really haven't felt like I was living in a book since I was a kid until I started to read harry potter!
Posted Mar 19, 2005 at 8:36 AM EST
Muggle
Points: 3
NDBlack says:
Ok, this hasn't been posted in for awhile, but I have to throw in my two cents. I just can't imagine the colorless and limited existence of the person (s) who wrote that article and stated that "indulgence" in fiction is dangerous. Is this for real? I am an "adult". I'm well educated, I am married, have a full time job, pay my bills take care of my pets and make sure my family is healthy and happy. And I read J.K. Rowling, and Dean Koontz and Stephen King and Tom Clancy - the list goes on and on. I also love TV, Alias, 24, The West Wing, the Sci-Fi channel, any amount of movies and yet I'm a news junkie. How I can manage to read and watch all that fiction while at the same making sure I go to work and pay my bills and spend time with my family must be amazing! Why does it all have to be made into so much more? How about, it's just good writing? How about, it's entertaining. It's not like I don't pay my car payment or go to work because it would take too much time away from my fiction reading and writing. I just cannot comprehend these people and their rationalizations that are in no way rational.
This type of media is such a waste - saying they don't personally care for the book - that's fine. All people cannot like all things. But to berate the people who DO like the book and try to make it out to be as dangerous as driving while intoxicated is idiotic at best. Stop wasting your time and our time OBSESSING on what we enjoy and put that energy into something that truely matters - like counter-terrorism or medical research or any number of other things that would actually benefit humanity. Personally I volunteer for the Guardian Ad Litem program, so I'm sure you could find a better use for your pen.
Posted Sep 27, 2005 at 1:26 PM EST
Wizard
Points: 666
Saquerus Lezzier says:
I think that the series of Harry Potter is a more serious series. I dont think its just for kids. It has violence, thrills, scary moments,etc.
Posted Dec 4, 2005 at 8:08 PM EST
Squib
Points: 100
lidian says:
I like to retreat from the real world at times and investigate how the Potter characters interact, grow and change in their evolving universe. Then apply a lesson learned from the Potter series to real life. Irealize people are responsible for their choices. I like to become childlike at times to see issues more clearly and then mull over the shades of grey that come along later during an extended period of introspection.
Kids and adults could meet on common ground: the Harry Potter universe. Perspectives could be easily shared within the context of the Potter series.
Posted Sep 6, 2006 at 9:38 AM EST