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AUGUST 21, 2003 at 1:04 AM
Posted by JAMES
Source: U-Wire via Wizard News
Kimberly Noles admonishes the publishers of the American Harry Potter novels for their aversion to many British words and phrases found in JK Rowling's original draft. In this scolding tone, she also defends her argument, claiming that readers in the States are intelligent enough to uncover meanings of the more tricky dialogue, and that the words help children gain interest in culture.
Noles points out
the statistically correct statement that, for the most part, American children lag behind the young of other nationalities in the understanding of culture in the world.
American publishers have missed the mark in helping educate said children. Editors have Americanized the "Harry Potter" series altogether by changing words and phrases from the British vocabulary to fit into the uses in America.
One example is that in England a jumper is a sweater whereas in America it is a young girl's dress. The editors did leave words like prat and git, but their meanings are easily discerned using surrounding context. "Bloody" anything seems to be used often enough in movies to be almost commonplace now.
...Most adults know that other countries spell words differently, but children don't. Seeing the words like colour, favourite and honour spelled differently opens the lines of communication for discussion about other cultures and why they do things differently. These words aren't misspelled -- some words are spelled differently in other places.
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Auror
Points: 2391
HPN4eveRon says:
The "favourite" one did puzzle me. Its funyn when they used the words liek when Ron says "Bloody Hell" when he is Crabbe in the CoS film i didn't really understand it but thewn i read the other books and all of it comes together. Like here in America we say we "like" someone. They say they "Fancy" someone. Its very interesting to me.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 1:10 AM EST
Professor
Points: 1092
Lord Grindelwald says:
Once in a while I get confused about them british words.Like taking the mickey or something.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 1:28 AM EST
Muggle
Points: 91
Sookie says:
I had no idea what "taking the mickey" was either. there were some phrases that I did have to think about because it didn't seem to fit but overall, I really like the british lingos. I didn't know mom was mum in england till OoP.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 1:45 AM EST
Prefect
Points: 353
Ms. White17 says:
I think its simple curtiy to translate some of whats going on! Dude, This book is writen from an entirely different culture and i don't enjoy having to stop and figure out what they're talking about! It distract me from the story I'm perfectly happy with my Americanized versions...The whole 'taking the mickey' thing left me flummuxed, it vexed me to no end and remained in the back of my head as i continued to read, very annoying. It still gets on my nerves, im just very picky about certain things, it just really gets on my nerves having to decifer certain fraises, thats just how i am.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 2:13 AM EST
Witch
Points: 975
Lilune says:
Well, I guess it's kinda lucky to live in a place like New Zealand where we pretty much understand both American and British phrases, cos we use both all the time. I find it amusing that people don't understnd things like 'taking the mickey', and I suppose in that sense it's good that they change stuff in the American books so you can read it smoothly. Or if they left it all British, they could include a glossary or something in the back, for the more confusing phrases.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 2:57 AM EST
Wizard
(Moderator)
Points: 806
Carl says:
Yes but the lady is right. British people understand almost all of the common american phrases like sweater, pants, favorite, color and some of your 'odd' expressions but you don't know British english even though it was around much longer than American english
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 3:33 AM EST
Witch
Points: 657
Wotcher_Tonks says:
If a book is written by an American author, then I don't expect to have American words transalated into Australian/English words, if there is a word I am unsure of [higly unusual considering the content of Australian Television is so largely American] then I consult Dictionarys [most countrys have these online] so therefore I think it is a little strange for a book written by an English Author to be altered in such a way.
I think it is a positive thing to learn that other countries can have different words and spelling.
IE Aus Biscuit USA Cookie
Aus Jam USA Jelly
How boring reading would become if every book was adapted in such a way.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 4:18 AM EST
Order of Merlin, 2nd Class
Points: 1750
Centaur says:
Blame the publishers for that one. I'm American, and I would rather the books had remained exactly as the author wrote them, with the British title and phrases. Many British slang words can be found in the dictionary. Seems like it would have been a good learning tool.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 3:05 PM EST
Witch
Points: 687
amdorn says:
I think that both versions should be available to the American public. The people who prefer the "Americanized" version can buy that book and those that would prefer the "British" version can buy another book.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 3:33 PM EST
Head Girl
Points: 468
Charlie'sMum says:
I totally agree. I think American publishers think that American readers are too dumb to figure things out on our own. I think a glossary at the end of the book would be great - I for one enjoy learning new phrases, and with a glossary you wouldn't have to go far to get your answers. Plus, 9 times out of 10 its easy enough to figure out what the phrase means by the context in which it is being used.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 3:35 PM EST
Prefect
Points: 353
Ms. White17 says:
Damian I find your comment unfair and insulting, i can figure out what the fraises mean, it just takes awhile and distracts me from the story. To make such a rude judgment insulting our intelligence is unfair, some dont mind the British versions, others like myself prefer the AMERICAN version. Its simply a matter of opinion, theres no judgment to be made especially one as cruel as yours.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 3:36 PM EST
Witch
Points: 917
Slytherin_Punk says:
Damian, what is ur problem. American culture and Bristish are two diffrent things and we have the right to have it written in words we understand. Not all Bristish people kno American words and not all bristish people kno American words. I completely disagree with this article and i am very offended but what you said. It was very iggnorant and insulting. GRRRRRR....
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 4:13 PM EST
Witch
Points: 658
ladywillow says:
Centaur -- I completely agree with you! The books should not have been "translated" into American but left as originally written. Its not like going from English to Chinese -- its English for Brits vs English for Yanks. I think its a good thing for children to be exposed to the phrases and idioms of other cultures -- like you said, its a learning tool. Beside contextual comprehensive reading is so very important as young readers mature. To me, that's the ultimate goal of putting a book in a child's hands.
Also, there are so many HP web sites out there. I'd think any child with internet access could easily procure a translation of unknow phrases like "taking the mickey". I mean, you can get HP fonts and spell lists -- why not a online glossery as well?
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 5:07 PM EST
Auror
Points: 2773
Alessandra says:
I would have preferred to read the Brit version to my daughter.
When I was younger, I read quite a few books by English authors, and eventually I figured out that the boys were wearing sweaters instead of dresses (jumpers).
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 7:27 PM EST
Student
Points: 251
Jupiter Lumos says:
I would have to agree with Noles on this one. I was rather annoyed that the America editors took out a majority of the British slang and terms. I mean, it takes place over there...why dumb it down and make it less obvious? I personally like the British lingo...
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 9:01 PM EST
Witch
Points: 712
harryroxmysocks says:
I dont like that they changed it, i'd like to see it more authentic.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 9:23 PM EST
Order of Merlin, 1st Class
Points: 1856
Rupert Baby says:
I love the british way of doing things if i could i'd rather read the british versio but seeing that i dont live in england it would be a bit difficult for me to get my litle hands on altough it does seem that they are leaving more words in than they did in the first book so we are making progress!
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 10:24 PM EST
Transfiguration Professor
Points: 2990
Choralee says:
As an avid HP fan I feel cheated that I have to order the UK version - the REAL VERSION - of the book through Ebay. Bloomsbury needs to make the UK version available in stores worldwide, or make Scholastic stop translating it into "American" english. I have now two collections of HP - the REAl one and Scholastics.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 10:42 PM EST
Witch
Points: 979
Butterbeer says:
I hope fpr the 6th they dont change as many things. Its supposta be an english thing, so why try and make it american?
I say keep things the britsh way. Why did they chage the stuff?? its fine how its written originaly.
Posted Aug 21, 2003 at 11:29 PM EST
Astro Zombie
Points: 2577
Fallen Bomb says:
I'm smart I think but I'm not going to waste my time trying to look up new words I never heard so that will make me dumber wouldn't it?
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 2:04 AM EST
Order of Merlin, 1st Class
Points: 1990
HarrysGran says:
I like to learn all the phrases of foreign languages. It enriches your vocabulary, I think.
It should be possible to buy both versions in USA, so everybody could decide for her/himself. An online glossary would be great for special phrases, cause we non-english folks don’t know either and we do not learn them in an lesson/find them in a dictionary. So that’s why I have to ask: (*blushing*) “What the heck is the meaning of “taking the mickey”?
In other European states you always get the british version, and I’m happy about cause I prefer the original.
By the way, what I didn’t understand: Why had the two different movies? In PS / SS special scenes had to be taken two times when “philosopher” or “sorcerer” was mentioned (as well as the title differs). Hm, was that really necessary? I should think all American folks could understood the movie if it hadn’t been altered. Well.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 7:31 AM EST
Snape's Woman
(Moderator)
Points: 5392
Prof. Andaxia Moonstar says:
I agree that they shouldn't "Americanize" the books. It is only fair to expect the characters to use British lingo since they live in Britain. It also helps familiarize American children with another culture. In the Austin Powers movies, they keep a lot of British terms and slang, and everyone I know who has seen them has never had a problem understanding what's going on. (Except the one scene in Goldmember, but it was deliberately made confusing). I hope that no further alterations will be made in the last two editions.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 8:05 AM EST
Healer for all Occasions
Points: 3567
Madam Malkin says:
I for one don't like the Americanization of Harry Potter very much. And I'm an American. I like the UK versions better, because of those English spellings, words, and phrases. But, I have also seen in earlier articles that the Americanization of the HP books is not as great as it used to be, because people are getting used to the differences. That's not to say that the books are not Americanized, because they are. Just less so than they used to be. And I think this is true.
But I have also read articles where publishers were telling JK not to let US publishers make such changes to her writing. But JK said it's just like translating into any other language - there are words and phrases that wouldn't make sense to us unless they translate them. JK didn't want us trying to read a book that we really wouldn't understand in parts.
So, the argument goes both ways. And I for one agree with both sides of the argument. But while it is true that the books are still Americanized, it is also true that they are becoming less Americanized.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 8:26 AM EST
Muggle
Points: 43
Catweazle says:
I have to admit, this is one of my pet peeves. Changing the title of the first book was completely unfathomable to me. The Philosopher's Stone is one of those classic myths, and changing the name was like renaming the Holy Grail or Excalibur. And the really frustrating part is that I couldn't see a reason for it.
I was genuinely horrified when I found out that the text in the books was changed for the US market as well. 'Mum' into 'Mom' and such. And again I find myself trying to understand why.
How do you hear the kids talking with Brit accents in your head if they're using American terms in the dialogue?? And these ARE very Brittish kids. Wonderfully, unashamedly so.
As an Australian I grew up under the strong influence of both cultures (US and UK) and feel very fortunate to be in the position to understand both.
I strongly agree that the US publishers have done the American public a HUGE disservice by changing the books. Smacks of 'dumbing down' to me.
And for the person who asked what "taking the mickey" means - to 'take the mickey out of someone' is to tease or make a mockery of of them. But in a good-natured, mostly harmless way.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 8:37 AM EST
Witch
Points: 676
Madame Rosmerta says:
Merlin's Beard! I would prefer the British version but it would be nice if both versions were available. It would be nice to see a poll on the site and we could see what the majority prefers.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 8:58 AM EST
Muggle
Points: 43
Catweazle says:
As the proud owner of both versions of OotP, I have to tell you - the UK edition pales in comparison with the US edition. The US edition has the most stunning presentation - chapter headers, beautiful font changes throughout (ie: hand signed letters and such), even lovely page headers (with little stars!). In the UK edition we got... italics. *sigh* Which is all well and good if you don't know what you're missing but, (and again I have to ask) WHY can't we have all that in the UK edition too? *pouts*
I'd happily buy the US editions of all of them BUT they went and changed the bloody text, didn't they!
*angry face*
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 9:16 AM EST
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