Discussion: The 'Phoenix' files

blair morning says:

phoenixashes - i think that harry and cho have a lot in common. they both like quidditch. they are both seekers. cedric's death upset both of them quite a bit(although this is probably not a good thing to build a relationship around). they were both involved with the d.a. but, i think that cho seems to...get around a lot. i was dumped six months ago, and i'm just now dating again. i mean, my boyfriend didn't die, but it ripped me apart! i don't know how cho could be ready to get involved with harry only two months after cedric died! (i'm saying two months b/c cho first approached harry on the train to school, which shows that she's interested.)

also, why did nothing happen between ron and hermione? in an interview jkr gave on 6/20, she implied that there was something going on w/ ron and hermione rather that w/ harry and hermione, and i think that we can all agree that ron and hermione looked likely, based on GoF. instead, ron and herm just bickered like an old married couple throughout the book. the only reason i can think of why they stopped the subtle flirting is b/c they were dating in secret, but that doesn't seem like the type of thing hermione would do. i've read the book 3 times since saturday (i finished it the first time in 8.5 hours!), and i don't think i've missed anything between ron and hermione. that disappointed me more than anything else (except sirius of course)

wow sorry to ramble on and on...bad habit i guess!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:28 PM EST

Prefect

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 361

LaDonna says:

Someone asked about why Hermione's patronus was an otter. I'm going out on a limb here, but just a guess it's because the otter is from the weasel family and that's what Malfoy always calls Ron.

I've got a couple of questions?

1) What happens to a house elf once the family has died out? Sirus was the last of the Blacks, so what happens to Kreacher?

2) Neville's also scarred (emotionally at least) from Voldemort. What if that's the mark instead? Dumbledore doesn't know everything, and they might have mislabeled the prophecy.

3) And what do you think Neville does with all those gum wrappers from his mom?

4) At the end Bellatrix points to ginny and says to torture the smallest one. How much bigger is Luna than Ginny if they're in the same year and why do they insist on calling her a little girl?

Also did anyone else catch the part where Ron thinks Harry and Hermione kissed sometime (page 457) or that when the Death Eaters threaten Ginny, not only does Harry step right in front of her, Neville does as well. (pg. 783-784)

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:29 PM EST

Prefect

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 361

LaDonna says:

Blair morning, there are lots of Ron and Hermione things in the book. They're just little.
Ron compliments Hermione: pages 300, 223, 229, 259. sort of 716
Ron gets jealous: pages 457, 331-332, 461-463
Hermione and Ron act like Mr. and Mrs. Weasley: pages: 226 and 658.
Then there are the 'It shouldn't have taken this much time to catch up to Harry' moments: page. 234 and 681.
Hermione insults Ron's range of emotions: page 459.
During Christmas Harry gives her a book, but Ron gets her perfume.
Pages numbers are for U.S. edition.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:37 PM EST

blair morning says:

ok, on page 805, it says "Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light...[t]he second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest." even though it doesn't say what color the second jet of light is, i would assume that it was also red. if it was a different color, jkr would have written something like "The chartruese jet of light..". i'm not sure, but i'm infering.

and to prove that james and sirius were in gryffindor, it says on page 704 "Ron had just reminded Harry forcibly of another Gryffindor Quidditch player who had once say rumpling his hair under this very tree." obviously, harry is reminded of when he saw james and the gang in snape's memory.

i think that snape seems a lot more human in this book. true, he is still awful to harry, but i think that by showing us some of snape's bad memories (and they were awful), jkr is explaining some of snape's bad attitude and present behavior.

and, it was rather stupid of harry not to think of either talking to snape or using sirius's mirror when he saw the fake vision of sirius and voldemort. i know he was panicked, but it just seems like that would have been the thing to do.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:40 PM EST

blair morning says:

ok, on page 805, it says "Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light...[t]he second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest." even though it doesn't say what color the second jet of light is, i would assume that it was also red. if it was a different color, jkr would have written something like "The chartruese jet of light..". i'm not sure, but i'm infering.

and to prove that james and sirius were in gryffindor, it says on page 704 "Ron had just reminded Harry forcibly of another Gryffindor Quidditch player who had once say rumpling his hair under this very tree." obviously, harry is reminded of when he saw james and the gang in snape's memory.

i think that snape seems a lot more human in this book. true, he is still awful to harry, but i think that by showing us some of snape's bad memories (and they were awful), jkr is explaining some of snape's bad attitude and present behavior.

and, it was rather stupid of harry not to think of either talking to snape or using sirius's mirror when he saw the fake vision of sirius and voldemort. i know he was panicked, but it just seems like that would have been the thing to do.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:40 PM EST

blair morning says:

oh, and why didn't harry see the thestrals before now? even if he didn't see his parents die, he certainly saw cedric die! shouldn't he have seen them at the end of school in GoF? i thought of this as soon as it said that the only people who could see them were the people who had seen somebody die.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:44 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Platonic or not, phoenixashes, the foundation is present for an H/Hr relationship. Not everyone starts dating because they want more than a platonic relationship. Sometimes you just get together to have fun, and that's what friends do.

That said, I'm not convinced it will happen, but I think H/R is even more far-fetched given their current relationship.

I guess my point is there are two more years and a lot can happen. Given what we have right now (both in the books and in JK's interviews), though, I don't know that we can make any conclusions yet.

Ginny may come back to Harry yet. Now that she knows it is actually possible to get Harry's attention....

PhoenixRising, I agree, Hagrid was DEFINITELY disconnected in this book. I think this was JK's way of making us suspect he could possibly be the one to die. He was of course very preoccupied with Grawp, who wasn't really cooperating and instead was beating him up... I think I'd be preoccupied, too....

Actually, for all of the people who were in peril in this book it is almost unbelievable that there was only one death. I admit that I was expecting war and not just a building up.

I thought there was a reference somewhere that James was clearly in Gryffindor. The Lexicon says that JKR said in an interview that James was in Gryffindor, however I just looked at the transcript, and JKR didn't say that; the interviewer did. Maybe James wasn't in Gryffindor?

Sirius' family were almost certainly Slytherin. I'm not sure whether he himself was or not.

I personally don't think we'll see Sirius as a ghost. Something like the Mirror of Erised might happen, though.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 4:45 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

phoenixfeathers...I agree that JKR has pretty much said the Harry/Hermione thing isn't going to happen (sigh...) but don't discount Ginny yet. Before, she was totally worshipping him (so much she couldn't say a word to him hardly). She got over the worship thing because she gave up hope, Hermione said, but that does not mean she doesn't like him. She does still like Harry, but now just figures she can be herself and not worry as much what he thinks about her because she thinks he's out of her league. Now have you noticed what a great girl she's become? I totally think that once Harry is ready for a relationship, Ginny will be perfect for them. They both love Quiddich, Harry loves the Weasleys, and Ginny has a great character. I believe it will happen! Then Hermione can hook up with Ron and everyone will be happy :-) And I can't say enough how glad I am Harry got rid of Cho! whew!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 7:09 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

To add to my last post...if the Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione thing works out then Harry and Ron will be brother-in-laws and Harry and Hermione will be bro/sis-in-laws. Very cool.

Also, Peeves is a poltergeist, which is different from just a ghost because they are solid and have the ability to move objects. I might be wrong, but I think that poltergeists aren't necessarily dead people, because I think I've read about people who can move objects just using their minds and they were called poltergeists. I should probably have researched this BEFORE I spouted off at the mouth, but oh well...maybe it will make a good starting point for additional research.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 7:16 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

LaDonna...good theory on Hermione's otter patronus! Maybe this means Hermione is destined for Ron??? (I think the name Weasley means weasel anyways, not just Draco's nickname for Ron.)

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 7:20 PM EST

Witch

House: Hufflepuff
Points: 609

Aravis says:

to luna lovegood and others with the same Neville/prophesy question...Some people have mentioned (wish I could remember to whom to give credit) that the prophesy could only be REMOVED FROM THE SHELF by either Harry or Voldie, but after the initial removal it could be handled by anyone. That is why Voldie lured Harry to the prophesy room (to remove the prophesy) with death eaters close around to take the prophesy (which had been removed by Harry) back to Voldie. That's why Neville didn't go insane and the death eaters were expecting not to go insane either from handling the prophesy once it had been removed.

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 7:31 PM EST

Prefect

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 361

LaDonna says:

Isn't it strange to anybody else that Neville couldn't think of one happy thought to produce a patronus? I know he was really trying hard.
I really wish we could have found out what Ginny and Ron's patronus were.
Also did anyone else see that Ginny and Harry snap at one another a bit like Ron and Hermione did in the first book in Ootp?

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 8:37 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1157

lizzie5987 says:

hello!! i've just finished reading the book!! and i think is the bestest book i've evr read in my entire life!! it is awesome, i love it!!. but i hat that umbridge!! she's soo mean!!!. I liked the part of cho and harry but it seems that harry doesn't really care about her anymore!! oh well. ron and hermione being prefects was surprising but really goood. and i hope harry could play quidditch again and that ron gets peete at been a keeper!!. well that's my commentary so far!! the book is amazing!!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 9:25 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1157

lizzie5987 says:

neville got really good at DA but i was wondering that maybe neville could have been the prophecy!!!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 9:42 PM EST

Professor

House: Gryffindor
Points: 1157

lizzie5987 says:

i really think harry and cho would have been a great coiuple.. but wat about ron and hermione?

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 10:21 PM EST

Auror
(Moderator)

House: Gryffindor
Points: 2484

Since the Start says:

I think that reason Neville has been bad at magic could have something to do with the fact that his wand was his dad's... I know his dad was really powerful and everything... but remember the wand is supposed to choose this wizard!

Posted Jun 25, 2003 at 11:34 PM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Erodelbmud: Yes, I think your theory is right on the nail. Veils are a covering, and as I understand it the word veil is used in a sense of covering things that ought not or can not be seen under typical circumstances. In that sense I would perceive a veil of death inherently having to cover what happens after death, because if we knew what happened after death we might become overly anxious for the next life (or we might become VERY scared about it). Either way would have an affect on the way we decided to live.

In other words, that veil covers knowledge that comes at a huge cost -- the end of mortal life. IMO.

OK, here comes the R/Hr thing again. I really don't think we have evidence for any relationship between them right now. That doesn't mean there won't be one. I just have a hard time believing that people who bicker so much in their youth would ever see anything in each other. Most of what I have seen from my point of view is that if the bickering is going to come it comes after they've been together for a long time, because if you're bickering before you even get married, well, why would you want to get married? Both characters are going to have to get along with each other better than they do now. That can happen, and if it does I would love to see H/Ginny and R/Hr.

Boy, right now I would HATE to see H/Luna, though.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 12:40 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Very good question. I just went to my copy of PoA (can't find my English one so I pulled out my Russian version). Lupin apparently taught Harry much differently than Harry taught. Harry had a hard time learning it, it took him most of his third year to do it. Could it be that since Harry can actually do it that he somehow is able to better teach how to do it? I wonder if Erodelbmud is onto something, though -- perhaps it's harder to create a patronus when a real dementor is present? Maybe it's because both Hermione and Cho have had really happy moments (Cho, after all, had presumably experienced a lot of happiness in her relationship with Cedric). Maybe Hermione is good at it just because she's good at everything else. Who knows?

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 12:50 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Interesting to think about how dangerous it was for the six students to curse the shelves in the Hall of Prophecy -- what if some of the spheres had touched the students before the spheres shattered? (Would have been nice if some of the Death Eaters would have touched them...)

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 12:58 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

I know kids that don't have tact at 17 or even 20.... Can't blame Harry here. He'll learn to be a little better, and it will help to have a girlfriend who isn't quite as different from Harry as Cho is.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 1:16 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Here's another thing.... Are the six students going to be in trouble for entering the Ministry of Magic? If the phone box prints out name tags couldn't it keep record of who went in there? Especially when, at the time of entry, there was nobody to rescue?

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 1:32 AM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 76

Rosco161 says:

Did I miss why harry was not made into a perfect....
I can't remember.... Thanks

DJ

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 1:51 AM EST

Muggle

House: Gryffindor
Points: 76

Rosco161 says:

Thanks Erodelbmud....

The only thing i really wanted to see was the DADA teacher get hers... I wanted to see her use her own pen.... Plus I would have loved for Harry and Draco have a chance to finish what Draco started at the end before Snape Saved Draco.....

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 2:17 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Erodelbmud: Yeah, I wouldn't let children of the DEs in either, BUT then again, you wonder why Slytherin are allowed to attend at all. There are very few good Slytherin. It seems that the damage to bringing Slytherin in is so very heavy. But they attend nonetheless and there are a few conversions.

Remember, even Sirius' parents had opinions much like those of Voldemort's, but Sirius didn't come out that way for some unusual reason. Perhaps one or more of the DE's children might change, too?

As far as Harry and Draco... I can't see Harry forgiving Draco unless Harry is also willing to forgive Snape. Thoughts?

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 2:23 AM EST

Wizard

House: Ravenclaw
Points: 993

Muggle Wizard says:

Geez, it would be nice if members of the Order could come back to life. But then, why not see the Prewetts, Longbottoms, Potters, and the other dead or otherwise incapacitated members of the original Order come back? They've had 15 years and can't do it....

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 2:47 AM EST

Head Girl

House: Gryffindor
Points: 479

eclektic says:

its great to have so many pple enjoying the book and discussing it!! im from singapore by the way and its wonderful to be able to talk with pple who arent from the asian region..

i re ead the part about sirius getting hit by the spell by bellatrix. the first jet of light was RED BUT he managed to duck. the second one hit him squarely in the chest BUT no color was mentioned. so it cld be the avarda kedavra for all we know.
i read some of ur postings on how he died and that he died not from the spell itself but from falling thru the acrhway and im still hesitant to believe it. although no concrete explanation ahs been given surrounding the mystery of the archway, im still not inclined to believe that anyone (living) who walks thru it would die. jus my thought tho..
also the thing abt the patronus. i believe that in PoA lupin taught harry in a practical way. tt is to say that he had a bogart tt turned into a dementor upon seeing harry. i think its pretty obvious that itll be harder to repel a dementor in a situation with dementors as opposed to merely conjuring up the patronus itself without them.

Posted Jun 26, 2003 at 5:47 AM EST