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JULY 24, 2003 at 10:41 PM
Posted by EUDAEMONIA
Source: The Quincy Herald-Whig via Moreover
Steve Eighinger of the Quincy Herald-Whig writes about the controversial stances arising from the Harry Potter series' mass appeal -- is it an entertaining fantasy read or the first step towards the occult? Here are excerpts of the article
:
That Harry Potter kid is causing trouble — again.
English author J.K. Rowling’s fifth installment of the megapopular Harry Potter series has refueled the controversy over whether or not the books promote interest in the occult, especially among younger readers.
Potter critics and supporters are passionate about their positions concerning Harry, who is now a teenager in the fifth of what eventually will be a seven-book succession. Rowling’s fifth book, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, was released in late June.
Here's a viewpoint from one radical stance:
The Rev. Rod Bakker of First Presbyterian Church in Quincy is strongly against the Harry Potter books and the movies. Bakker said he did not make up his mind on the subject until the initial controversy erupted and he read the first Harry Potter book. "There are people in society who practice witchcraft and we do not need to encourage it," Bakker said. "The difference between Star Trek and Harry Potter is that Star Trek is 100 percent pure fantasy. I’m not sure Harry Potter is."
Bakker said if Harry Potter proponents would take the time to check, the spells talked about in the books are actual witchcraft writings "with a couple of the words changed."
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Order of Merlin, 2nd Class
Points: 1783
Juno Puddifoot says:
Repeatedly it seems HGreenbacker 8705 - O I really hate this nonsense.
Posted Jul 24, 2003 at 11:00 PM EST
Prefect
Points: 342
Precious says:
I keep hearing this and it's getting annoying. Harry Potter is an enjoyable seris, it has wonderful qualities and should not be looked upon in a negative way. I'm so sick of hearing this I don't have anything more to say.
Posted Jul 24, 2003 at 11:06 PM EST
Animagus
Points: 19544
Sirius-Ella says:
grrrrrrr, I at first didn't like hp...cause all the rumors of being bad influance but took a chance and read them and look at me now...I love them...and my vocabulary has expanded well over more then it wouldve not reading hp...I have no notion of joing a cult....grrrrr
Posted Jul 24, 2003 at 11:08 PM EST
Editor of the Squibbler
(Moderator)
Points: 2031
eudaemonia says:
I agree, I'm quite tired of this topic. However, the fact that it keeps popping up is scary, whether it's propaganda for the anti-HP folk or they're getting stronger in their hold. Sirius-Ella isn't likely to be alone in being discouraged from reading HP from this bad press. She took a chance, but how many haven't?
Posted Jul 24, 2003 at 11:18 PM EST
Student
Points: 246
Gryffindork says:
I wish that people would keep their negative comments to themselves. I want to become a Doctor in the occult and learn everythign there is to learn about the occult. it seems interesting. it doesn't mean I'm a devil worshiper.
Posted Jul 24, 2003 at 11:24 PM EST
Witch
Points: 657
Wotcher_Tonks says:
I have really tried to avoid weighing in on this topic, and like many of you am sick of hearing the comparison of HP books to the occult.
I have always thought the occult is about Satanic worshipping etc.
and one dictionary definition is as follows
a woman who is believed to have magical powers and who uses them to harm or help other people:
a witch on a broomstick
History has also shown that men and women who used herbs etc for healing were also regarded as some sort of sorcerers.
I just think that History has proved that some people never change and no doubt if it was legal they would be burning JKR at the stake.
Posted Jul 24, 2003 at 11:41 PM EST
Points: 3950
CowsOJMilkSoil says:
Wow how could they say: "The difference between Star Trek and Harry Potter is that Star Trek is 100 percent pure fantasy. I’m not sure Harry Potter is."- what is that?!?!? Harry Potter is an entirely new world! JKR has made this magical WORLD! How can they say its not fantasy? Oh goodness things like this make me so angry!
Posted Jul 24, 2003 at 11:44 PM EST
Prefect
Points: 355
Lavender06 says:
Wow, people need to stop saying bad things about Harry Potter. It's a series that is supposed to be fun and magical, and anyone who thinks that Harry Potter might actually be real is stupid!!
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 12:16 AM EST
Professor
Points: 1124
mattie says:
GEEZ!!!!!!
I think we hear this all the time "Harry Potter makes people want to search the occult".
I think it is the people saying that, who have the real problems.
I mean they are afraid that we can see the diffrent between fantasy and the real wold..... Come on, we'r not stupid. No Harry Potter reader is sittig in some cirkel mumbleing stranges words. Is we ?
Think it's kinda hysterical.....
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 6:28 AM EST
Witch
Points: 645
trezmcgonagall says:
I wonder if any of these freaked-out people ever bother to read the books or do they just read the parts that they want to. i guess they have trouble playing cds in reverse for hidden messages or something. it's not like we are supposed to emulate voldemort or something. i think i will just listen to the vatican on this one. if it's good enough for them, it is good enough for me.
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 7:09 AM EST
Metamorphmagus
Points: 37946
tonks black says:
feh..i aint religious and i aint ever been to church, so why would i care what some reverend thinks about the books? i like them and noones gonna stop me from reading them.
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 8:49 AM EST
Head Girl
Points: 468
Charlie'sMum says:
Star Trek is less realistic than Harry Potter? First of all - huh? Totally different genres, not to mention medium. One's a book, one's a TV show. Secondly, more things have come true from Star Trek (computers, cell phones) than will ever come true from HP, unless someone stumbles across a Blast Ended Skret or figures out how to create a Polyjuice Potion.
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 9:12 AM EST
Witch
Points: 611
Mdm Rosmerta says:
For goodness sake. Why don't these people listen to the interviews with JK Rowling so they would know what they were talking about. The books are not here to popularize occult, they are about bravery, loyalty, morality, friendship and love.
But I am preaching to the converted here.
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 11:03 AM EST
Head Girl
Points: 479
eclektic says:
ho ho.. what a load of fluff. i cant be bothered with opinions like this. goes to show how close minded some people are.
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 12:53 PM EST
Prefect
Points: 378
wangoballwime says:
okok..i love, LOVE Harry Potter but there is no denying that within the Potter books are many references to the occult. Now all of you may think that HP is 100% fictional and yes, the plot is, but certain elements within the books are not completely the work of JKR, or fictional at that. However the average reader would not know of these or percieve them while reading them. For example, one that everyone probably noticed, the whole story of the philosopher's stone/elixer of life is a myth that wasn't written by JKR. Have any of you ever read a book called "The Alchemist" if not, you should because it's really great and the whole plot is based on that.
Other things such as names, places, events (Merlin, Circe, the Basilisk etc..) are also myths that weren't, of course, written by JKR. Now these are only the obvious and very forthcoming examples. There are many more subtly embedded references to the occult in the series which I can't even begin to list because I simply wouldn't know to realize their presence. I listened to this radio show once in Toronto where I live, and the host was talking about the harry potter books on June 20th I think and he gave some startling information on not only the content of the book, in which he read certain passages from (books 1-4), but he actually touched on the fact that book 5 was being released in the summer solstice, which again is an occult ritual.
Please forgive my somewhat brazen opinions and believing that Harry Potter is NOT thorougly innocent in these regards is not being close minded. Ok, i agree, this person's article was hardly supported by information and facts, but to think that HP or many other books in the mainstream are not influenced by these certain occult elements would certainly be naive.
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 1:28 PM EST
Witch
Points: 841
evangalista says:
It is absolutely ridiculous for anyone to think Harry Potter influences joining occults. Its the same thing as people believing movies or music influence people to do bad things, it just doesnt happen. People make up their own minds, and if they choose to do something, thats their decision, even if they say they got the idea from a book, movie or song, they would have eventually done it anyway. I agree about the Star Trek comment, JKR has made up every single aspect of the Harry Potter world, I dont think she got any of her ideas from studying people in Hogsmeade, or visiting the Leaky Cauldron, they dont exist, I dont understand how anyone could say its not all fantasy.
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 3:54 PM EST
Professor
Points: 1065
Lerah99 says:
Ok, I hate having to make this sort of statment; it is tacky. Unfortunatly I think it is time someone said it.
I am Wiccan. That's right, a full blown practicing witch and all it entails. Most of you I assume are somewhat familiar with Wicca. For those who aren't:
1) There is no devil worship (we don't believe in Satan. We consider him a Christian concept) and there are no animal or Human Sacrifices (the whole reason I'm not pre-med is because the sight of blood makes me light headed.)
2) It is an earth based religion (yep, we are tree huggers) and we belive that Divinity has both masculine and feminine traits (Which we refere to as the God and Goddess) We are those new age, crystal wearing, alternative healing loving sorts who most people think are kind of flakey.
I can tell you that the magic in Harry Potter is no where close to modern day witchcraft. (And I was Wiccan long before Harry Potter came out, so none of this Harry Potter converted me nonsense) I have never made anything levitate, lit any candles without a lighter, transfigured a mouse into a goblet, etc... Gosh, I wish I could flick a wand and have the dishes wash themselves, but it's is never going to happen.
There are occultish type references in Harry Potter. Most of these are basic myths and cultural stories that have become labled occult. James made the point very well in his post, so I will not repeat it.
If anything there are more Christian references in Harry Potter than occult references. The Phoenix is a symbol for Christ's death and resurrection. The children all celebrate Christmas. The Lion repetedly defeates the Serpent. Etc...
I am not suprised that no one has ever gone to JK Rowling and informed her that HP inspired them to witchcraft. Anyone who changes their religion due to a fictional book, really has bigger issues than Harry Potter being a "bad influence". (No Offence meant towards the Scientologist and Dianetics)
Ok, I will step off my soapbox now. :o)
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 10:48 PM EST
Professor
Points: 1106
Ima Quidditch Fan says:
This is so strange. I see so many Christian references in the HP sereis... I can't image anyone not picking up on at the least the good vs. evil concept.
I can't say which one, but my husband works for one of the well known religious groups in the US "Bible belt". I have not heard on one person Harry bashing there... AND my Bible study group usually begins with great Harry theories.
All of the teachers I know love Harry... I have met no one that thinks the series is evil. My husband thinks it is for kids and has not read it... but he doesn't think I have joined a coven either. :)
Posted Jul 26, 2003 at 12:42 AM EST
Points: 164
serpentpixie says:
As a wiccan i find this totally stupid...i mean really really dumb. Wicca is a religion, not evil, not satan worship or any of the other things people say about it. ]
People do not decide to become christian because a character in a book goes to church. so why should people decide to become wiccan because they read about it in a work of FICTION.
we do NOT wave wands and curse people etc... like they do in harry potter (much as i wish i COULD put a bat bogey hex on some people!!)
I would advise everyone who makes any comment like those above to check their facts before making assumptions & judgements.
Lily
Posted Jul 26, 2003 at 10:07 AM EST
Student
Points: 272
Yvain says:
Many of you have already made good points on this topic, so I will just point out one thing I found really funny in Rev. Bakker's statement:
"..the spells talked about in the books are actual witchcraft writings "with a couple of the words changed." "
Now what would a good Presbyterian minister know about actual witchcraft writings? ;) It might interest the minister to know that "Avada Kedavra" is an Aramaic phrase, Aramaic being the language that Jesus and his countrymen spoke. It means "may the thing be destroyed," and refered to making diseases, and the demons associated with them, disappear. It was a healing and protection charm.
Rowling gives it a much darker meaning, of course--making it the instant death spell. Perhaps the difference is in the speaker's intent--a good wizard would use it to destroy an evil thing, while an evil wizard could use it to destroy a good thing (such as life)? Evil people are always corrupting, or trying to corrupt, good things. Ironically, people like Rev. Bakker are as guilty of this as any Death Eater.
Posted Jul 26, 2003 at 8:32 PM EST
Prefect
Points: 397
Tarotx says:
oc·cult :
1. Of, relating to, or dealing with supernatural influences, agencies, or phenomena.
2. Beyond the realm of human comprehension; inscrutable.
3. Available only to the initiate; secret: occult lore
I have no idea why you guys freak when someone mentions that Harry Potter causes an interest in the accult. It's does. There are kids and other courious people right now searching though books and internet sites for ways to do what Harry does. More then anything it's teh subjects they study. [b]Divination, astrology, Herbiology, Mystical creatures of real and myth and actual charms and potions that lead to among other things protection of themselves, home and family.
Harry potter has sparked an interest in people wanting to be magical people. It hasn't really sparked an interest in the religous aspect of "magic" but if you go search for the sujects you will find the "god-goddess' behind the power.
Christian groups have a right to fear. The things is banning or attepting to ban is the sure fire way of continued interest in the Magic -science and myths behind Harry. What these Religous leaders should do is teach that "magic" is basically no more then a prayer and medicine created from plants and such that "God" gave man to use when he gave us the earth to inhabit. They can encourage knowlege and their own religous beliefs without banning Harry.
Posted Jul 28, 2003 at 10:24 AM EST
Student
Points: 272
Yvain says:
Goldmoon: most intelligent people are a little crazed. ;) It's nice to see that there are young people like yourself who are willing to discover their own truths. It is not easy to go against what the "majority" believe.
Ravenskylark: it's so cool that you and your mother were raised Wiccan! Most Wiccans I have known have discovered it as adults. My family has traditionally been Catholic, but they're also a long line of psychics--they're very gifted at picking up energy around them. I am more gifted at sending it out--a magic user. I don't believe in limiting myself to any one religious tradition or idea about the divine, but I really admire the Wiccan tradition--probably because of my Celtic blood. :) Could you (or any of the other Wiccans here) recommend some good books to read on the subject?
Tarotx: You're right, magic is very much like a special way of praying and of relating to the world--that's how I think of it. It involves feeling the natural flow of the Creator and of creation around and through us. Feeling it, and using it to bring our own intents and desires and needs about, or those of others. Of course, we still acknowledge that there is a greater power at work (God, Goddess, Creator, whatever you want to call it). But the Creator gave us powerful minds as well, and means for us to use them. As such, magic goes against no religion. It would be wonderful if Christians and people of other religions could accept and co-exist with it.
Some religious people, however, think that only their beliefs are true, that only their ideas about God and humans are true. They will never accept anything different. Instead of supporting their children's natural curiosity, and offering them guidance and supervision along the way, they will just repress them. They will ban and burn books. They will continue living in fear. Fear of the unknown, or fear of what they think they know.
What they think they have to fear from witches or other "pagans" is beyond me. They're by far the majority, and a ridiculously powerful one at that. I certainly don't recall reading in history books that witches ran around burning Christians at the stake. ;) Granted, I've met some nasty magic-users...self-proclaimed devil-worshipers and satanists. I don't fear them though. Anyone who uses magic for evil--that is, to harm others--is going to be in for some pretty serious trouble.
Posted Jul 29, 2003 at 4:02 PM EST
Student
Points: 231
Libby Potter says:
Yes, Harry Potter is, no I dont care if you're not, yes I am one too. Deal with it. My children will also like Harry Potter they are good books. So there.
Posted Aug 4, 2003 at 6:27 PM EST
Points: 351
Imelda Moonshine says:
Harry Potter must be the book that is furthest away from a portryal of real witchcraft.I mean brooms and wands?Not in real life.I wonder if there was this controversy when the Lord of the Rings trilogy was published?
Posted Aug 7, 2003 at 2:56 PM EST
Points: 216
RhondaWeasley says:
We need to go back to “The difference between Star Trek and Harry Potter is that Star Trek is 100 percent pure fantasy. I’m not sure Harry Potter is.”
First off, Star Trek is pure Sci-Fi, why was this comparrison ever made? Now Star Wars is more a mix of Sci-Fi/Fantasy and I don't see anyone attacking Star Wars for the Jedi, who are basically space wizards who take the 'special' children from thier parents to train them in the ways of the force.
My biggest problem with this continued assault on Potter is they're not going after all things that portray Wizardry and 'Fantasy Magic' practices as natural, they're targeting Potter for something that exsisted before his adventures and will be a part of fantasy literature long after the hype's died down.
Posted Aug 7, 2003 at 3:18 PM EST
Points: 7828
Rococoed says:
It is sad some people want to ban products of the imaginations that were given to them by God. Magic has been a device often used in fantasy to further the escape from reality, not to promote the occult.
If any of these Christians would bother to visit the Harry Potter Lexicon they would discover *gasp* that J.K. Rowling is a member of the Church of Scotland, not a Wiccan, as so many are currently assuming. Secondly, J.K. Rowling said she knows of child in the Harry Potter fandom who started practcing the occult after reading the books, and with my knowledge of Harry Potter fans in my community, Iowa City, I'll have to agree.
As Wanagoballwime said, there are references to folklore and myths in Potter, such as the Philosopher's Stone and the Basilisk. Also the Hippogriff was taken out of European folklore, as was the werewolf Lupin. While the Phoenix originated in an Egyptian mythology, the bird has been often used by writers to describe the change of a character and was also used buy C.S. Lewis in Chronicles of Narnia. Not just that, but the phoenix was also used by the early church as a symbol of Christ's resurrection. The basilisk is is symbolic of satanic agencies. Could Chamber of Secrets actually be a Christian allegory, symbolizing Christ triumphing over Satan? Some food for thought.
The only course in Potter that does resemble the occult is Divinaton, and JKR luckily made it an imprecise subject.
The magic in Potter is nothing worse than the Fairy Godmother turning the pumpkin into a carraige, or Tinker Belle's Fairy Dust. If you have a problem with Potter, I can't see how you can't have a problem with the whole fantasy genre'. Harry Potter is just a fantasy, and it's best if we leave it at that.
Posted Oct 28, 2003 at 10:01 AM EST
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