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JULY 25, 2003 at 5:49 PM
Posted by CHEESER
Source: Jewsweek via iharrypotter.net
Jewish Rabbi David Zauderer found "some of the strangest, almost magical, supernatural things" - like what you'd find in the Harry Potter adventures - in what used to be the bestselling book of all time.
He's speaking of the 3,000-year-old Torah
, in which he sees parallels to Salazar Slytherin's basilisk and Dumbledore's phoenix, Fawkes:
God wasn't just trying to get on top of the New York Times best-sellers list! So, granted, all this sea-splitting, manna-dropping, and serpent-staring makes for a riveting read, but what really is the purpose of the Torah recording all those strange, otherworldly events? And it is especially troubling when you consider that, for the better part of our history, we have not experienced such supernatural events, and have always thought of Judaism as a down-to-earth religion, which doesn't rely on "magic" or other "freaky" things in order to impress us of its truth and relevance.
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Metamorphmagus
Points: 37946
tonks black says:
hm..that article was kinda confusing. if i had read the Torah i probably would of understood it a little bit better , but oh well. you cant have everything in life and understanding things is one thing i aint got. :)
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 5:56 PM EST
Professor
Points: 1012
Imperio says:
Um, it was an interesting but odd article and I might have to check out the above links from HPProgs
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 6:22 PM EST
Points: 568
ab2421 says:
I thought that was pretty interesting... well, maybe that's because I kind of understood it, being Jewish and all :)... if anyone didn't understand something, I'll be happy to answer questions to clarify some of the statements made.
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 7:45 PM EST
Hufflepuff Princess
Points: 24832
Waddi Wasi says:
That surprised me too. I love HPProgs; they have great story things :D
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 10:22 PM EST
Professor
Points: 1065
Lerah99 says:
Oh no, here is another thing for the fundamentalists to get their panties in a twist about. Harry Potter promotes a conversion to the Jewish Faith. (Hey, it's no sillier than HP promoting witchcraft)
Abessette you make a fabulous point as always. I will simply have to re-read my Harry Potter books with this article in mind. :o)
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 11:46 PM EST
Squib
Points: 121
ying reilly says:
I like this! As a Christian, I'd seen the references to the Phoenix, as well as appreciated how Lily sacrificed herself so that her son might live (and now her son might do the same). But hey, I'd never seen the Old Testament serpent reference.
Now I know what to look for next time I pick up my Bible =)
Posted Jul 25, 2003 at 11:56 PM EST
Lycanthropist for W.S.S.
Points: 3603
Alchemist 530 says:
Its good to see more religious connections to the books, especially new views from the Old Testament that Christianity might've missed. Atleast this article isn't being horribly critical, it acually sounds like they might have actually READ Harry Potter.
Posted Jul 26, 2003 at 12:15 AM EST
Professor
Points: 1106
Ima Quidditch Fan says:
Wahoo, re-read!
The Hidden Key is another good reference on this topic.
Posted Jul 26, 2003 at 12:34 AM EST
Auror
Points: 2303
padfoot5312 says:
Jewish Rabbi David Zauderer is making a few statements and comparing them to some things with Harry Potter. Stating that there is magic in the Torah – just like HP books. That the Torah used to be on the best seller list until the HP book
“recorded in the Torah for us to read about and study, was in order that we should realize that, ultimately, everything that happens in this world, including all of nature, is an expression of God's will, and that God is very much a part of our lives.” Isn’t this what we are doing? Studying the HP books and making notes.
“God is right there with us, just beneath the surface, waiting for us to let Him in to our lives. And, as they would say at the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, that is a very important lesson for us Muggles to understand and incorporate in our own lives.”
Like this statement that we should learn things and to understand it – We’re trying to understand and figure out what’s going to happen next
Posted Jul 26, 2003 at 10:35 AM EST
Points: 245
Tonks510 says:
Confusing article but interesting. Maybe J.K.Rowling knew that. Or maybe she didn't.
Posted Jul 26, 2003 at 1:06 PM EST
Student
Points: 272
Yvain says:
Good article! I especially like this part:
"Teva means nature, but it also means submerged, because God is hiding, so to speak, just beneath the surface. ... But God knows that it is not easy for Man to see through the mask of teva -- to see Him submerged below the surface."
Hm, reminds me a little of the image of the veil in Order of the Phoenix. It's also similar to an ancient Celtic belief that the "Otherworld" where the divine and the dead live is separated from our world only by a thin veil. Our living senses cannot penetrate the veil, but the Otherworld is really all around us. God is all around us, as are the souls of our loved ones. Lurking just out of sight, as Luna Lovegood tells Harry. :)
I was also interested to learn that the Old Testament contains the symbol of the snake and pole. I always associate that image--the caduceus--with the Greek god Hermes. Snakes were a very big image in many "pagan" religions the world over.
I am not surprised by any of this, though. I have always believed that all the world's religions and mythologies are held together by common threads. Just different fingers on the hand of God, as Kahlil Gibran put it. :)
Because Rowling's books also contain a lot of mythical images and values, it is only to be expected that people of various traditions will find similarities with their own scriptures.
Posted Jul 26, 2003 at 8:12 PM EST
Squib
Points: 121
ying reilly says:
Moony - I agree with you! I just don't understand how people can say that the books are Satanic. If people freely tell their children fairy tales like Rumpelstiltskin and Rapunzel, then why do they ban their children from reading Harry Potter?
After all, I'm pretty sure they allow, even encourage, their children to read the Narnia Chronicles, which is no less steeped in fantasy. By the way, that's where I first learnt what's a Centaur.
Posted Jul 27, 2003 at 8:16 AM EST
Auror
Points: 2303
padfoot5312 says:
Yvain - I feel the same way that all religion are held together by common threads and good point about the veil.
Posted Jul 29, 2003 at 8:56 AM EST
Witch
Points: 917
Slytherin_Punk says:
This was a confusing article and i was they would stop saying the harry potter has to do with religion.
Posted Jul 29, 2003 at 11:49 PM EST
Witch
Points: 917
Slytherin_Punk says:
What is torah? If i knew it would probaly be easier to understand.
Posted Jul 31, 2003 at 5:58 PM EST
Astro Zombie
Points: 2601
Fallen Bomb says:
I'm not Jewish so I never would have known ever but oh well I don't know if JKR did that on purpose of if she's religious or anything but we might never know.
Posted Jul 31, 2003 at 7:00 PM EST
Auror
Points: 2303
padfoot5312 says:
Animagus88 - A Torah is the Pentateuch; whole scripture of Judaism
No JKR never put any thing religious in the books - just comparing a few things
Posted Aug 3, 2003 at 10:19 AM EST
Auror
Points: 2303
padfoot5312 says:
I think Jewish Rabbi David Zauderer is just comparing some things from the book to Torah. Saying that until Harry came along the Taron was the best selling book (at 3000 years old).
Posted Aug 3, 2003 at 10:21 AM EST
Professor
Points: 1155
MissMaryPotter says:
Oh, would someone be so kind as to slap all the religious icons who keep trying to point their crosses at the wrong context. I think it's great that they can compare such things to HP.... but in the end... it's just a book.
Posted Aug 4, 2003 at 11:02 PM EST
Muggle
Points: 62
Rose_Miller says:
I find this article interesting. I think I'll forward it to the rabbi at my synaguage. I can remember sitting in services and hearing the part about the snake. I never looked at it like that...
Posted Aug 5, 2003 at 1:43 PM EST
Auror
Points: 2229
Ms.MikhailBlack says:
YEs harry poter is a cult, and it is evil!!!Okay it's fiction right?
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 4:43 PM EST
Professional Beater
Points: 20891
feltonluver says:
I really don't understand this article too well, but I do know that those two animals have lots of history and mythology to them.
Posted Feb 20, 2004 at 7:50 PM EST
Witch
Points: 696
quidditch_seeker says:
Seeing as I am not Jewish, this really doesn't make sense to me. But I know that J.K Rowling did a ton of research for the books, so alot of the things that people think are coincedences really aren't.
Posted Jun 19, 2004 at 11:17 PM EST
Magical Music Professor
Points: 5130
MagicalMusicDreamer says:
The Rabbi's article is okay. I guess he relates everything to his religion.
I think most religions would be more magical if they weren't so bound with rules. Most orthodox religions have so many rules, I don't know how they remember them.
Posted Jul 13, 2004 at 10:38 PM EST
Witch
Points: 617
S.Black13 says:
I really don't think there would be any reliouse book referenced in the slightest way in Harry Potter. At least not on purpose. JK seems like she steers very clear of this subject to aviod more conflict.
Posted Aug 1, 2004 at 9:03 PM EST
Muggle
Points: 65
Meara Fayak Lupin says:
I think they are totally on the right track. One reason most christians have not noticed the refrence they are talking about is because the Torah is a much more expanded version of the Old Testement so we dont get all the facts and details and stories. I personally think that we as humans crave the supernatural and the mysterious. And in an age of reason it has not been to prevelant, untill the fanticy novel really took off.
Posted Dec 26, 2004 at 6:37 PM EST
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