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AUGUST 21, 2003 at 1:04 AM
Posted by JAMES
Source: U-Wire via Wizard News
Kimberly Noles admonishes the publishers of the American Harry Potter novels for their aversion to many British words and phrases found in JK Rowling's original draft. In this scolding tone, she also defends her argument, claiming that readers in the States are intelligent enough to uncover meanings of the more tricky dialogue, and that the words help children gain interest in culture.
Noles points out
the statistically correct statement that, for the most part, American children lag behind the young of other nationalities in the understanding of culture in the world.
American publishers have missed the mark in helping educate said children. Editors have Americanized the "Harry Potter" series altogether by changing words and phrases from the British vocabulary to fit into the uses in America.
One example is that in England a jumper is a sweater whereas in America it is a young girl's dress. The editors did leave words like prat and git, but their meanings are easily discerned using surrounding context. "Bloody" anything seems to be used often enough in movies to be almost commonplace now.
...Most adults know that other countries spell words differently, but children don't. Seeing the words like colour, favourite and honour spelled differently opens the lines of communication for discussion about other cultures and why they do things differently. These words aren't misspelled -- some words are spelled differently in other places.
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Muggle
Points: 43
Catweazle says:
As the proud owner of both versions of OotP, I have to tell you - the UK edition pales in comparison with the US edition. The US edition has the most stunning presentation - chapter headers, beautiful font changes throughout (ie: hand signed letters and such), even lovely page headers (with little stars!). In the UK edition we got... italics. *sigh* Which is all well and good if you don't know what you're missing but, (and again I have to ask) WHY can't we have all that in the UK edition too? *pouts*
I'd happily buy the US editions of all of them BUT they went and changed the bloody text, didn't they!
*angry face*
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 9:16 AM EST
Metamorphmagus
Points: 37946
tonks black says:
I'm a child and due to some of my friends online, i've learned alot about british spellings and meanings. The color and favorite both have U's if i remember right. and i've learned what crisp's and nutters are.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 10:03 AM EST
Auror
Points: 2229
Ms.MikhailBlack says:
The thing is is that we don't speak Brit. It's slang anyways. Have the words in that book that are britsh i am totally cluelesss. Who calls their shoes trainers. Sounds like a diaper. Chips for fries? No No. Let's see about some more:
A jumper is a sweater? No i thought it was a dress
Grumless? what the hay how can that mean clueless.
Whilst? Now there is some old fashion stuff.
Barking, yeah my dog does that...what it means crazy or mad?
Conk is a nose...okay well maybe
Dressing Gown is a bathrobe, i thought a dressing gown was some thing fancy.
Git...Now i like this one, no complaints...Stupid git
Manky...i should name my sister that considering it means dirty?
Hmmm overall i am confused half the time, we speak sort of a different language than brits. What's next they won't translate it into different languages because it could be out of context!!! We are americans...Yanks if you want...Not brits or red coats as i like...Try this word on the Brits...Word UP! You really think they would get that...Or wait how about Fo' Sho. SOunds odd huh? Oh well i guess i'll just have to say bloody hell and get on with it,
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 11:03 AM EST
Student
Points: 204
Bryak says:
I like the original versions more personally, but I understand the need for translating some of it. A ten year old American child is not going to as easily identify with the characters if they are using a different vocabulary. On translation I am adimently against is "the Sorceror's Stone". When I first saw the book at the bookstore, one of the reasons I didn't read was because I thought, "The Sorceror's Stone? I've heard of the philosopher stone, but not the Sorceror's." It's just mythologically inaccurate, and that bothers me.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 11:16 AM EST
Muggle
Points: 43
Catweazle says:
Yeah, but it's all about context, isn't it? And, in the context of these books, the kids are Brits and should therefore talk like Brits.
And, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I have never heard of books (or movies for that matter) being translated from American into British (or Australian). No, we are expected to learn and accept your terminology. Which we do gracefully. In context.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 11:23 AM EST
Points: 26
professorponypants says:
Hey,
I am new to this message board, and just to be clear, I wouldn't post anyting unless I felt semi-strongly about it.
First of all: Sadly, Americans are seen as both ignorant and arrogant by the majority of the world's population. After reading some (not all) of these ridiculously misspelled (I hope it was irony) and incredibly narrow-minded posts it is evident why. To reiterate what about half of you said: look up the words (slang and all) that you don't understand. If you're as fanatical about the Harry Potter series as you seem to be, you should be interested in the culture behind them. And furthermore, if you're a fan of READING in general, you should be interested in enriching your vocabulary and opening your mind up to new ideas.
So, just to sum up: As Americans (especially us younger ones) we should be, in my opinion, trying to raise the bar as far as intelligence and cultural awareness is concerned. That way, we wont be as stupid as everyone thinks.
Thanks for reading!
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 11:42 AM EST
Points: 927
ChelCho says:
We can't really do anything about it now, since we all own the books that have come out already. I suppose they could make the new American versions more British. I personally like to see the British-isms. It would make the kids of America more culturally aware of England. That's always a good thing...
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 1:07 PM EST
Muggle
Points: 56
Auberon says:
WoW. Thats it WOW. We are calling each other stupid over SLANG. Lets let that sink in. You and your culture are less intelligent cause you dont get our SLANG. I feel cheated because I cant get the original SLANG. I have both copies, and nothing of the story is lost in the american version. you want to complain about purity of artistic intent, go ahead. You have a valid arguement there. Calling someone stupid because they dont understand SLANG is.....well stupid!
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 1:23 PM EST
Headmaster
(Moderator)
Cheeser says:
Friendly reminder: Play nice, people. It's okay to have differing opinions - even controversial ones - but argue your views maturely, or I will politely ask that you don't post here anymore.
As for my own opinion, I would definitely have preferred to read the original text for purely artistic reasons. Beyond business justifications, I'm completely baffled as to why Scholastic felt the need to "Americanize" the books. It is an insult to us.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 1:58 PM EST
Auror
Points: 2391
HPN4eveRon says:
I cant believe you said that Damian. Americans are just as smart as the British. No need for insulting. I am glad they made a Americanized version. But learning all these new lingos just makes us even smarter
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 3:10 PM EST
Auror
Points: 2229
Ms.MikhailBlack says:
WE are Americans we are not Brits! There is a a big difference in the way we act and understand things. If you remember right the Philosophers Stone is called that because in Brit. It is not a concept for them of Sorcery when for us it is not an evil thing. Number two...THis post is for posting our views not " Oh i am not even going to read anything. I just want to write about how people spell words wrong, oh my flesh oh my brain," and so on. If you have ever read a literal translation of a spanish version you would be totally confused. I don't want to read a book and half to stop ever five minutes to see if i can find so british person to explain things to me. I want to read the book not four others in the process
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 4:25 PM EST
Prefect
Points: 353
Ms. White17 says:
I agree with Jerber, it doesn't make you any dumber whichever version you prefer. Its just like translating it into another language. The same story, only intended so that the audience can get the most understanding out of it. The fact that the translate it a bit does not make anyone less intelligent, they are al the "REAL" deal. I proudly enjoy my Americanized versions.
PRofessorponypants i could not dissagree with you more. CHILdren read these books for enjoyment!!
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 6:10 PM EST
Student
Points: 281
LiLSw33ti says:
The books should be translated word for word in my opinion because then we'll get JK's true writing. Its cool to read it with British slang in there. Even though I won't understand a few words, it wouldn't matter because that's what these fansites are for, they give us the definitions. All we have to do is look them up, doesn't sound too hard does it?
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 6:41 PM EST
Points: 616
Minister of Magic says:
My problem is I am not an English native speaker
I have learned American English , and most English televison programs in my country are in American English. I had to use the sictionary more frequently thsi time when reading the book.
I have just discovered that sweaters are jumpers in UK.
In my country a Jumper (and in U.S.) to it means a dress, such as a school uniform. It confused me. Lol
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 7:07 PM EST
Chief Brain Washer
Points: 2881
Chogiiiirl says:
I would like to read the Brit versions of books 1-5. I live in the states, and i want to read them to my 3rd grade students. I am not for the Americanization of the books, it makes our society more single-minded, and less tolerant of others that immigrate to the US, or even visit. I would like my students to grow up with a more appropriate world view, as well as my own children, and I thin the original HP books can help with that goal. Where can I find them?
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 7:22 PM EST
Muggle
Points: 43
Catweazle says:
I think you would have to order them through Amazon UK.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 7:41 PM EST
Professor
Points: 1068
Penumbra says:
I am American but I attended a British school. I think English lingo is awesome and what is more important is that the original books are written using british english so they should remain like that. The new or odd words will blend in they are not so hard and they increase the language's boundaries.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 8:14 PM EST
Minister of Disinformation
(Moderator)
Points: 9689
Geri says:
I agree with most here & don't think they should have Americanized the books. There are enough Potter sites out there that if someone had a real problem understanding them they could find the answer. I also have a problem with them Americanizing the movies which really threw me for a loop when I watched them the first time. It must have been a real pain to redo a scene with different words just because TPTB thought that Americans would not be able to understand them.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 8:24 PM EST
Professor
Points: 1068
Penumbra says:
And I do understand non native speakers. I live in a south american countrie and I teach in a British school ( am american) and well girls usually understand both versions. They do prefer the Brit one beacuse they know Brit english but hey I think that if you read the whole sentence you will get the meaning.
Yes Chogirl you have to order them through amazon UK. What do you teach?
Geri who is TPTB? Can you please make that clear.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 8:24 PM EST
Minister of Disinformation
(Moderator)
Points: 9689
Geri says:
Penumbra: TPBT (the powers that be) would be Warner Bros., the director as well as the writer who believed that an American audience would not be able to understand British words.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 8:45 PM EST
Prefect
Points: 353
Ms. White17 says:
Whatever.Its not that we wouldnt be able to understand, its more of an inconvinience - having to figure out foreign slang - is all
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 11:21 PM EST
Witch
Points: 750
siriusgurl says:
I agree, but then I'm canadian and don't we get the same version as the english? I don't get whats so hard to understand, the only word or phrase that I've ever not completely understood was 'taking the mickey' but I'm pretty shure I know what it means. But I don't get whats so big changing colour to color I usely just pick one or the other when I write.
Posted Aug 22, 2003 at 11:41 PM EST
Professor
Points: 1068
Penumbra says:
Thanks Geri! I didn't know that. Not in favour at all but not a shock right? They always do these kind of things.
Posted Aug 23, 2003 at 12:15 AM EST
Points: 200
Brittany says:
I think that the books should have been kept the way they were written. It would be good for some Americans to learn new words from a different country. British people have their own slang, and it's really neat to read it. It's not too hard for me to tell what most things mean. If I really cant figure it out, I just ask someone online, or look it up. Most of the words make perfect sence, and it's really neat to learn them. The characters are British so it would only make sense that they would use British slang.
Posted Aug 23, 2003 at 12:45 AM EST
Auror
Points: 2229
Ms.MikhailBlack says:
Okay sssss was every, actually i did know he was english thank you. Who isn't that great. Did you also notice that Brits have an accents...just wondering, thought i'd test your knowledge, sesne i seem to be too stupid to know
And anyways how can anybody be too proud to be an american...actually i am not even american...not fully, so does that make me too proud to be a mix. Are we going to be racial now because that could be fun. Or Not. Why don't you save it for someone who cares. Maybea moderator will pick this up
Posted Aug 23, 2003 at 12:54 AM EST
Chief Brain Washer
Points: 2881
Chogiiiirl says:
Penumbra: Thanks for the tip. I'll be sure to check out amazon UK. I just began teaching 3rd grade, I've taught K-1 for the past 7 years, which was a little young for the HP books. My 3rd graders have requested me to read HP to them, since they see me reading PoA for myself, and know I love all of the books. I have a few of my more advanced readers that are reading the books to themselves already, but most of them can't. I think the brit version would be benificial to them in many ways, increasing their vocabulary, learning of other cultures and the like.
By the way, what do you teach in South Africa?
Posted Aug 23, 2003 at 8:28 AM EST
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